Best guns of WW2

[Soren]

Originally Posted by drgondog

Neither am I but I haven't missed too many in the last 30 years.. We usually try to get to Munich and Madrid this time of the year but missing this year.

I've never experienced it, but I've heard from friends that its well worth the long trip. I must admit I like the idea of women with lovely showing cleavages walking around with ten or more glasses of beer

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Well he is talking from experience. He was the one calling it in.

That's all right and I understand that, still, I have this itchy feeling it's not only pilots who have their own anecdotes... this is for a 152mm captured russian howitzer piece. I doubt other howitzers would be lightyears more accurate.

[mkloby]

Kurfürst - I'm glad you whipped out your book to prove your "itch" that this is an anecdote. That book is a great reference I am sure. BTW, I'm a military pilot - I have no vested interest in arty. When I said "feet," I probably more accurately meant meters, without realizing a campstool commando would be picking the post apart. I'll tell you what, though - the fire was not nearly as poor as in your table above.

Just a thought - before you degrade someone's experience, remember that just because you have a book that says something contrary doesn't mean it is untrue. I'm going out on a limb guessing that you don't have any experience of your own to back yourself. It's a shame - I used to think your posts were rather well thought out and insightful.

[Soren]

Oh dear...

[Kurfürst]

Dear Mkloby,

A few comments.

1, This 'book' was made by people with vastly more experience than either you or me.

2, I've seen our own arty on live fire excercise. There's a safety zone for a good reason. Doesn't concern flyboys but it rather concerned us, poor meatbags.

3, The table shows that for this particular piece of arty equipment, at 8000m 50% of the shells will land in a 70 meter long and 8.8 meter wide area. The area is typically ellipitical shaped along the longitudal axis, and the scatter can be described with Gaussian probability formulea. Which of course can mean that a few shells will land within a few meters, but most won't.

Sidenote : In case of a 152mm shell however, the diameter of the crater it will be making is about 10 meters, so 8 meters of sideways spread is little comfort anyways. The real dispersion will still appear distance-wise. If we take into account the size of a tank hull you've seen as a target, it sure seems less than it actually is.

That of course is true for before today's ballistical computers, which constantly monitor and adjust for barrel wear, ambient temperature, air pressure and million other things. However we're talking about WW2.

There's no need for you to take this so personal anyways. It's a discussion board, we merely exchange our opinions.

[Soren]

Guys remember things have probably been altered quite a bit within US army since WW2 the range adjustment piece for a M2 in the 70's up until now likely differs quite abit from its WW2 counterpart - hence why mkloby mentions the range was estimated in meters.

Just my two cents worth..

[mkloby]

Good point regarding the modern fire control center - I didn't think of that.

K - I apologize for my reaction. My experience may very well not be the norm. Maybe my grid coords were perfect, maybe the arty crew was sh*t hot, or maybe it was dumb luck. You're right - the men that compiled that data were probably arty officers with tons of experience, and I do not doubt its accuracy. Maybe I misunderstood you, but the part that got me was when you insinuated that it was a tall tale.

Cheers.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Soren

I've never experienced it, but I've heard from friends that its well worth the long trip. I must admit I like the idea of women with lovely showing cleavages walking around with ten or more glasses of beer

Having been to it many times, it is not worth it. There are too many people there. You are better off going to smaller fests that are all over Germany and less crowded. You pretty much get the same beer and the same big chested women.

Hell you are better of going to Munich when the Oktoberfest is not going on and just going to the famous Hofbrau Haus and you get the same. I will be at the Hofbrau Haus the first weekend in November.

Now having said that the Oktoberfest is a must atleast once in your life just to say you have been there.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Having been to it many times, it is not worth it. There are too many people there. You are better off going to smaller fests that are all over Germany and less crowded. You pretty much get the same beer and the same big chested women.

Hell you are better of going to Munich when the Oktoberfest is not going on and just going to the famous Hofbrau Haus and you get the same. I will be at the Hofbrau Haus the first weekend in November.

Now having said that the Oktoberfest is a must atleast once in your life just to say you have been there.

Munich and Madrid are still my two favorite cities.. I remember my first trip down the Rhine on the way to Munchen with that Deja Vu sense of having done that before in a different time.

The summer after HS grad, before I reported for football practice at Ga Tech, I spent 60 days riding a Norton Commando from London to Calais (ferry) then up to Arnhem, on an excursion down the Rhine, on to Munchen - then to Vienna, Venice, Rome, Barcelona, Madrid, Porto and Lisbon ,across the mountains in S. France Normandy, Paris and back to London. MATS ride from UK back to Andrews AFB Greatest experience of my single life. I sold my Norton when I got back to US and cleared my trip expenses with the difference.