Best Jet of the War?

the lancaster kicks ass · 12-28-2004, 01:52 PM

dude we used bolt actions, a highly trained soldier could fire 25 aimed rounds per minute (that was the figure before WWI, i know the standard of training was never the same after that...........)

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-28-2004, 02:05 PM

The Bolt Action rifle was the standard at the beginning of the war for all countries including the US.

Standard Infantry Weapons
French: Fusil d'Infantrie Modele 1886
Germany: Mauser Karabiner 98k
England: Lee-Enfield
USA: Springfield M-1903

All of these Bolt Action rifles that were standard infantry issue. Later on they were replaced by other rifles and semi automatic like the M-1 Grand (which only held a 8 round clip)

Other non bolt action rifles that became standard weapons
Germany
Gewehr 43 semi-auto rifle
MP40 submachine gun
Sturmgewehr 44 assault rifle

England
Bren light machine gun

USA
Thompson M1
M3 SMG
M1 Garand rifle
M1 Carbine

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-28-2004, 02:18 PM

And the Mauser Karabiner 98k was actually an excellent weapon especially for snipers. I own several of them in my Third Reich artifact collection and they shoot very accurate and well.

Nonskimmer · 12-28-2004, 02:25 PM

Really? Cool!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-28-2004, 02:36 PM

They shoot very smooth and accurate. I enjoy shooting them. I have not done so in a very long time though do to the fact that I can find anyone who will ship me the ammo to Germany to shoot it, and the ammo is very hard to get in Germany with the strict gun laws. I used to get it from www.manions.com in the US which is also were I buy my Third Reich uniforms. I dont even know if manions sells ammunition anymore. For anyone interested in collecting 3rd Reich uniforms www.manions is the best place I can think of.

Nonskimmer · 12-28-2004, 02:41 PM

Nice dress tunic!

Thanks for the link!

Erich · 12-28-2004, 02:42 PM

the ammo is inert from them and I have picked up several 2cm M rounds from them although the shell casings did not match the rounds.

Manions is a pretty good plae but also too you need to know your stuff as they have carried fakes and many overpriced depnazified items in the past. the web has huge stock loads of militaria sites with wonderful items so please do not limit yourslef to one spot where you have to bid agasint another bidder..........guess you could go to ebay

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-28-2004, 02:44 PM

I try to buy a new unifrom, helmet, headgear, flag, anything really about every 3 months. The great thing about it, is that it is an auction and you can bid the minimum and get things fairly cheap. As a collector I try to go for quality over quanity and price though. Currently I am bidding on a Waffen SS panzer wrap around tunic.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-28-2004, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

the ammo is inert from them and I have picked up several 2cm M rounds from them although the shell casings did not match the rounds.

Manions is a pretty good plae but also too you need to know your stuff as they have carried fakes and many overpriced depnazified items in the past. the web has huge stock loads of militaria sites with wonderful items so please do not limit yourslef to one spot where you have to bid agasint another bidder..........guess you could go to ebay

I know what you mean. I have been a collector for about 14 years now and I study everything there is to know about it so that I dont run into fakes. I have seen many Americans at US gun shows buying what they think is real but really is a fake. The best example being a Spanish made helmet that looks just like a German M-42 but was never used by the Germans and they sell it for high prices telling people that it is a German M-42.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-28-2004, 02:48 PM

So the ammo is inert now that they sell. I have not bought anyfrom them since I lived in North Carolina back in 1994. Another good place to get ammo though is the Gun Shows that they have back in the US.

plan_D · 12-28-2004, 08:50 PM

Even with Americas huge economy, the Germans were still more advanced. The Americans achieved most things with notes from the British scientists, especially the atom bomb. As Britain was the first country to start researching the destructive power of splitting the atom. In 1939 moving all it scientists and research to America, with the German threat looming over them.

The Germans were well ahead in many things, and not far behind in those areas that they were. The main problem with the Americans (and British) on the ground was that they never designed things to get the edge over the enemy, only to catch up to them. Meanwhile the Germans and Russians were constantly striving to be one step ahead of one another, that's why their equipment just kept raising the bar when Western equipment (save electronical warfare - Britain was also raising the bar on that) was always trailing behind, trying its best to catch up.

And no one was even anywhere near the ability of the German rockets.

12-29-2004, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

dude we used bolt actions, a highly trained soldier could fire 25 aimed rounds per minute (that was the figure before WWI, i know the standard of training was never the same after that...........)

Sure... now try that while running.

plan_D · 12-29-2004, 02:33 AM

You try firing the M1 Garand effectively while running, and you'll see they're in the same trouble. The Garand, as all rifles in those days, kicked like a mule - you aren't going to be getting accurate shots off while running with anything. And the Brits (starting with the Chindits) could fire the Bren from the hip, if they really need a looney running and shooting randomly. In the jungles, it was required.

12-29-2004, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

Even with Americas huge economy, the Germans were still more advanced. The Americans achieved most things with notes from the British scientists, especially the atom bomb. As Britain was the first country to start researching the destructive power of splitting the atom. In 1939 moving all it scientists and research to America, with the German threat looming over them.

The Germans were well ahead in many things, and not far behind in those areas that they were. The main problem with the Americans (and British) on the ground was that they never designed things to get the edge over the enemy, only to catch up to them. Meanwhile the Germans and Russians were constantly striving to be one step ahead of one another, that's why their equipment just kept raising the bar when Western equipment (save electronical warfare - Britain was also raising the bar on that) was always trailing behind, trying its best to catch up.

And no one was even anywhere near the ability of the German rockets.

Many Americans were involved in the development of the A-Bomb, along with a few British and a few German Jews (in key positions). Germany was no where close to a working fission bomb.

Again, I point to the M1 Garand as an example where the USA was ahead on weapons, not "catching up". And German aircraft really weren't that great, certainly aside from the Me262 they were not "ahead" of US designs. Take away the range requirement from the US planes and they were certainly better than their German counterparts. As it was, they were roughly equal. And Germany had no VT fuse despite a huge lead in trying to produce one.

The difference is that the USA was trying to win a war. Germany was trying to put money in the pockets of the right Germans. This dictated pursuing hi cost projects without regaurd for their tactical or strategic usefulness. Rockets are an example --- they were useless wastes of resources. Hitler and the Nazi's just didn't believe they could actually loose the war to "mongrels" until it was already lost.

If the USA had entered the war at the start of 1942 and had no Japanese enemy to fight, the war would have been won by mid 1944 if not earlier. Think of the huge part of the US industry that was building ships!

=S=

Lunatic

plan_D · 12-29-2004, 02:42 AM

Thank you for pointing out the huge economic base that everyone already knows that America had. Which is why it was able to carry out the war, because of its economy - not its technological superiority.

If you want to argue with the world that the Germans weren't technically superior, be my guest but you're going to be beaten at every corner. The M1 Garand, what's so good about that? The Germans had the Stg. 44.

The German aircraft not so good? Is that why American bombers were being blown out of the sky, left, right and center throughout the war? Even when they had fighter escort? The Fw-190 could dogfight better than all the American aircraft, except the P-38 in certain situations.

The Rockets were not a waste of time, they were given the go ahead too late. They could have been ready by 1942, if full funding was given. You think the Allies would have not been bothered that they were being hit by V-2s throughout the war? Or that Russia would have not cared as their strike force across the Volga was getting splattered by these brilliant designs.

The Germans were reaching a conclusion on their complicated nuclear bomb, until the British and Norweigans blew it sky high.

And nice to see you missed out the tanks there, where America ALL the way through was designing to keep up. The Sherman to catch the IV F/2 - the Sherman improvements to try and counter Tigers and Panthers (failing) and finally the Pershing - still trying to catch the Tiger...and failing, although nearing equal in a straight shooting match.