Best Jet of the War?

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-02-2005, 10:51 AM

but some of them were on somewhat random and pointless topics.........

GermansRGeniuses · 01-02-2005, 01:20 PM

Like that spit of land we know as Belgium...

Anywho, wasn't Goddard part-Russian?

evangilder · 01-02-2005, 01:51 PM

Goddard was born in Worcester, Massachusetts. He may have had Russian heritage, but he was born in the US and attended school in the US.

GermansRGeniuses · 01-02-2005, 01:52 PM

Thought so...

I've read things about him, but not much and it was a while ago.

evangilder · 01-03-2005, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

If the Germans were behind why is it that the F-86 and MiG-15 look remarkably similar - by luck? No, it's because a team of German scientists had designed them.

Actually, that is technically incorrect. The F-86 design was done in 1944, before the war was over. The original design had a straight wing like the Mustang in the original design though. The main engineers used the swept back wing design after seeing some of the German test data after the war. Keep in mind though that the German test data was a huge collection of tests, some of which would seem ridiculous designs today, but they tried everything, orthodox and unorthodox. To say the F-86 was a German design is not correct. The addition of a swept wing design later could be attributed to earlier German engineering, but not completely a German design.

I don't know enough about the MiG-15 to state with any authority, it could have been a German design, but it could also have been designed by the Mikoyan design bureau after seeing the same post-war data the Americans had. Why are the 2 designs so similar? Could be coincidence, could be good spies.

plan_D · 01-03-2005, 03:12 AM

I do know of the US contribution to many things. Von Braun was, as you know, the pioneer to liquid fuel rocket technology - first flying them in 1931.

I was refering to the swept wing designs on the F-86. It would have not been such a great aircraft had it had straight wings.
The MiG-15 was a through and through German design, with a British engine.

"After the war, the Ta 183 story continued. The Soviets found a complete set of plans for the Ta 183 in Berlin at the RLM offices, and began construction of six prototypes in March 1946 by the MIG design bureau. On July 2, 1947, the first Soviet-built Ta 183 took to the air powered by a British Rolls-Royce "Nene" turbojet. They discovered that the original Ta 183 design needed either automatic leading edge slots or wing boundry layer fences to alleviate low-speed stalling. Also, as a compromise between high-speed and low-speed flying, the horizontal stabilizer was moved approximately one-third down from the top of the vertical tail. The modified Ta 183 first flew on December 30, 1947 and in May 1948 was ordered into production as the MIG 15."

Kurt Tank also designed an Argentinian fighter off the Ta-183 - the Pulqui II - but this failed due to a change in the wing configuration.

Archangel · 01-03-2005, 03:59 AM

I think the best jet fighter of ww2 is either the Go-229,

or the Heinkel He-129

plan_D · 01-03-2005, 04:08 AM

None of them saw service, and the second one is a He-162. The -129 was a piston night fighter.

evangilder · 01-03-2005, 06:53 AM

Interestingly, they did test the original F-86 with a straight wing and the results were what we would expect today; top speed performance below expectations. The idea for swept wings came about after looking at the German test notes, which by the way were a large, loose collection of charts and other data in no particular order and obviously in German. I am sure that it took quite some time to go through all of that.

Gnomey · 01-03-2005, 08:05 AM

ME262

plan_D · 01-03-2005, 10:09 AM

It wouldn't have been very hard to translate the German, as they did capture German scientists. The Russians seem to do okay with German scientists and the Ta-183 design.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-03-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

I do know of the US contribution to many things. Von Braun was, as you know, the pioneer to liquid fuel rocket technology - first flying them in 1931.

I was refering to the swept wing designs on the F-86. It would have not been such a great aircraft had it had straight wings.
The MiG-15 was a through and through German design, with a British engine.

"After the war, the Ta 183 story continued. The Soviets found a complete set of plans for the Ta 183 in Berlin at the RLM offices, and began construction of six prototypes in March 1946 by the MIG design bureau. On July 2, 1947, the first Soviet-built Ta 183 took to the air powered by a British Rolls-Royce "Nene" turbojet. They discovered that the original Ta 183 design needed either automatic leading edge slots or wing boundry layer fences to alleviate low-speed stalling. Also, as a compromise between high-speed and low-speed flying, the horizontal stabilizer was moved approximately one-third down from the top of the vertical tail. The modified Ta 183 first flew on December 30, 1947 and in May 1948 was ordered into production as the MIG 15."

Kurt Tank also designed an Argentinian fighter off the Ta-183 - the Pulqui II - but this failed due to a change in the wing configuration.

Here is some more info on the Ta-183

Quote:

In late 1942, Focke-Wulf engineer Hans Multhopp headed up a design team that started aerodynamic studies for a new turbojet fighter. This culminated in 1945 as a fighter project known as "Huckebein" (a cartoon raven that traditionally makes trouble for others).On Febuary 27 and 28, 1945, the Emergency Fighter Competition conference was held by the OKL (High Command of the Luftwaffe), and the Ta 183 was chosen to be developed and produced. There were to be sixteen Versuchs (experimental test series) aircraft: the Ta 183 V1-V3 to be powered by the Jumo 004B turbojet, pending delivery of the He S 011 jet engine, the Ta 183 V4-V14 as 0-series preproduction aircraft and V15-V16 as static test aircraft. The maiden flight of the first aircraft was planned for May/June of 1945. The first production aircraft were scheduled to be completed by October 1945, but no examples of the Ta 183 were completed because on April 8, 1945 British troops captured the Focke-Wulf facilities.

After the war, the Ta 183 story continued. The Soviets found a complete set of plans for the Ta 183 in Berlin at the RLM offices, and began construction of six prototypes in March 1946 by the MIG design bureau. On July 2, 1947, the first Soviet-built Ta 183 took to the air powered by a British Rolls-Royce "Nene" turbojet. They discovered that the original Ta 183 design needed either automatic leading edge slots or wing boundry layer fences to alleviate low-speed stalling. Also, as a compromise between high-speed and low-speed flying, the horizontal stabilizer was moved approximately one-third down from the top of the vertical tail. The modified Ta 183 first flew on December 30, 1947 and in May 1948 was ordered into production as the MIG 15.
http://www.combatfs.com/~rr5/ta183.htm

Origin: Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau GmbH
Models: N/A
Type: N/A (Assumed fighter)
Engine: N/A
Dimensions:
Wing Span: 10.00m
Length: 9.4m
Height: N/A
Wing Area: 22.52 Sq M
Weights:
Empty: 2,830 kg
Loaded: 4,300 kg
Fuel: 1,250 kg
Ammunition: 120 kg

Performance:
871 km/h (541 mph) At Sea Level
955 km/h (593 mph) At 22,960 Feet
Initial Rate Of Climb: 4,020 Ft/min
Take Off Distance: 2,160 Ft.
Landing Speed: 102 mph
Landing Distance: 1,665 Ft.
Ceiling: 45,920 Ft.
Range:N/A
Armament: N/A

As for the He-162 it was innovative but was not the best thing to be built and was not really a match for late war allied piston aircraft. As for the Gotha Ho-229. Yes it was quite a design and I personally think it could have been unstoppable in the skies but it did not reach service by wars end so it certainly was not the best aircraft.