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05-05-2007, 12:03 PM
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#61 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,268
| Yes, 1,250 Miles is on internal tanks and that aint bad.
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | 
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05-05-2007, 12:18 PM
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#62 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 3,026
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by Soren  I'm not ignoring tactics mkloby, I'm just being realistic here. How on earth are you going to catch a speedier and much faster climbing a/c which has been diving at someone at 750 -800 km/h and starts climbing back up again with alot more energy than you ?? | My point is that diving at high speed doesn't equate to an instantaneous quick kill.
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05-05-2007, 12:19 PM
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#63 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,505
Country: | Neither was 2,000 for the mustang...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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05-05-2007, 01:28 PM
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#64 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,268
| Quote:
Originally Posted by mkloby My point is that diving at high speed doesn't equate to an instantaneous quick kill. | No ofcourse not, never said so either. You'll note I didn't put a number on how many -51's would likely get shot down on the first pass - but chances are several would.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland
Last edited by Soren : 05-05-2007 at 01:32 PM.
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05-05-2007, 01:31 PM
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#65 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,268
| Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Neither was 2,000 for the mustang... | The Mustang has a range of around 1,300 Miles with 269 gallons of fuel - thats full internal fuel load
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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05-05-2007, 01:42 PM
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#66 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,505
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Originally Posted by Soren The Mustang has a range of around 1,300 Miles with 269 gallons of fuel - thats full internal fuel load | and 2300 miles with drop tanks...You stated the Ta 152 had a range of 1250 miles WITH tanks. Hardly a long range fighter when compered to the mustang...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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05-05-2007, 01:49 PM
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#67 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 5,069
Country:  | Fuel capacity was 595 liters for the H-0 model with the option of a 300 liter drop tank on the centerline. The H-1 model carried an additional Total tankage of fuel was 595 liters for the H-0 model which could also carry a 300 liter, underbelly droptank. The H-1 model carried an additional 470 liters of fuel in six unprotected bag tanks in the wings, but typically one of these tanks was used to hold the MW 50 methanol-water mixture. The H-1 could also carry a 300 or 600 liter centerline droptank.
Another thing that I read....
"The Ta 152 was not afforded the time to work out all the little quirks and errors plaguing all new designs. These problems proved impossible to rectify given the situation in Germany towards the end of the war, and only two Ta 152 C remained operational when Germany surrendered. All the H-models had been grounded due to engine problems. Reportedly, of those Ta 152H that flew, most were used in a close-support role and as escorts protecting the Me 262 airfields while the vulnerable jets took off and landed. If true, this was not the role for which they had been intended. Again, there is no evidence that Ta-152H aircraft were ever encountered by Allied aircraft attacking German airfields."
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JAN
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"
Last edited by Lucky13 : 05-05-2007 at 01:54 PM.
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05-06-2007, 10:33 AM
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#68 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,268
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ and 2300 miles with drop tanks...You stated the Ta 152 had a range of 1250 miles WITH tanks. Hardly a long range fighter when compered to the mustang... | FLYBOYJ, I never stated anything about drop tanks, what I said was; " 1,250 Miles is on internal tanks"
The H-1 has an internal fuel capacity of ca. 1,000 Liters (264 Gallons).
The range of 1,250 miles is with full 'internal' fuel load - no drop tanks. So yes, the Ta-152H is infact a long range fighter.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland
Last edited by Soren : 05-06-2007 at 10:36 AM.
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05-06-2007, 10:40 AM
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#69 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,505
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Originally Posted by Soren FLYBOYJ, I never stated anything about drop tanks, what I said was; " 1,250 Miles is on internal tanks"
The range of 1,250 miles is with full 'internal' fuel load - no drop tanks. So yes, the Ta-152H is infact a long range fighter. | I stand corrected but with that said the Ta 152 did not have the ability to fly the missions the P-51 or later P-47s did which amounted to over 2000 miles. Was one ever used with drop tanks? A Spitfire V had a range of 1,100 miles, it wasn't close to being considered a long range fighter.
I would also gather that the Ta 152s range was a ferry range, flying at altitude leaned for cruise flight. In actuality it probably had a combat radius of about 500 miles...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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05-06-2007, 12:03 PM
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#70 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,268
| Fact is the Ta-152H flew just as long as the P-51 on the same amount of fuel. And yes the Ta-152 could be fiited with a drop tank, a small or large one.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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05-06-2007, 12:23 PM
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#71 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Originally Posted by Soren Fact is the Ta-152H flew just as long as the P-51 on the same amount of fuel. And yes the Ta-152 could be fiited with a drop tank, a small or large one. | Could of, would of, should of. Soren, I agree the Ta 152 was a wonderful machine, but in the snapshot of history we are discussing, it was far from being deployed or being a long range fighter that could of matched in range. The Spitfire could be fitted with a tank as well and again it was far from being considered a long range fighter...
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05-06-2007, 01:04 PM
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#72 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,268
| I don't get what it is you're saying, the drop tanks were there to be used FLYBOYJ, just like the P-51's drop tanks. The Ta-152H had available a 600 Liter drop tank if the mission demanded it.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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05-06-2007, 01:24 PM
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#73 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 5,069
Country: | P-51D Mustang
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 32 ft 3 in (9.83 m)
Wingspan: 37 ft 0 in (11.28 m)
Height: 13 ft 8 in (4.17 m)
Wing area: 235 ft² (21.83 m²)
Empty weight: 7,635 lb (3,465 kg)
Loaded weight: 9,200 lb (4,175 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 12,100 lb (5,490 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Packard Merlin V-1650-7 liquid-cooled supercharged V-12, 1,695 hp (1,265 kW)
Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0163
Drag area: 3.80 ft² (0.35 m²)
Aspect ratio: 5.83
Performance
Maximum speed: 437 mph (703 km/h) at 25,000 ft (7,620 m)
Cruise speed: 362 mph (580 km/h)
Stall speed: 100 mph (160 km/h)
Range: 1,650 mi (2,655 km) with external tanks
Service ceiling: 41,900 ft (12,770 m)
Rate of climb: 3,200 ft/min (16.3 m/s)
Wing loading: 39 lb/ft² (192 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (300 W/kg)
Lift-to-drag ratio: 14.6
Armament
6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns; 400 rounds per gun for the two inboard guns; 270 per outboard gun
2 hardpoints for up to 2,000 lb (907 kg)
10 × 5 in (127 mm) rockets
__________________
JAN
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!" | |
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05-06-2007, 01:27 PM
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#74 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,505
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Originally Posted by Soren I don't get what it is you're saying, the drop tanks were there to be used FLYBOYJ, just like the P-51's drop tanks. The Ta-152H had available a 600 Liter drop tank if the mission demanded it. | Tell me how many missions Ta 152s flew escorting bombers over the UK or USSR?????
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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05-06-2007, 03:46 PM
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#75 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 1,870
Country: | My data on TA152H-1 says the internal tankage carried 364 imp. gal. On internal fuel, clean, at 376 mph at 32,810 ft it could go 755 miles. That would be a yardstick range, not a realistic practical number. Max range with 66.2 imp. gal drop tank-1250 mi at 293 mph at 22965 ft. Once again a yardstick range. A realistic combat radius with drop tank might be around 420 miles. This data is from "The Great Book of WW2 Aircraft." | |
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