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11-10-2005, 02:51 PM
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#46 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country:  | That might be why Canada does so to begin with.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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11-11-2005, 03:38 PM
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#47 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 2,260
Country:  | No were not, this is just another tree hugging liberal attemp to pussify our military , we do have tanks, not enough of them, they are obsolete, however mechanically they work just fine,They are updated with modern technology so we can use them efficiently, but the Liberals think that Canada should do away with our army and leave our National Security responsibilitys to the Americans, which is not fair to me and NS and the canadian people, or the Americans, and to do away with our force of MBT's is very symbolic, Now the Mobile gun systems NS is right we will probably call them our MBT's, it will be a death trap for the crew as we will be fitting an overweight gun (without any stableizer) to the top of a Stryker APC, which we have had maintence problems with already.
NS The Conservatives have to win or we are SCREWED!
__________________
Hello me...meet the real me.
And my misfits way of life.
A dark black past is my
Most valued possession.
Hindsight is always 20-20,
But looking back its still a bit fuzzy.
Speak of mutually assured destruction?
Nice story...tell it to readers digest!!! | |
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11-11-2005, 04:00 PM
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#48 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country: | Here, here. But the years of Liberal government have already taken a heavy toll on DND. It would take years to undo all of the damage they've caused us already, and a Conservative government would need to be hard-line and willing and able to sway the views of the Canadian people back in favour of a military. I mean a real military, not this...this...farce that we've become. 
In order for that to work, they'd need to be in office for quite a long time. Unfortunately, I can't foresee that being the case. We're just too damn fickle.
I'd love to see us at least become effective again. I really would. | |
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11-11-2005, 04:07 PM
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#49 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Untill the Leopards are tested under actuall battle conditions, they must take a distant 4th seat behind the Abrams, Challanger and Merkava. | And you great expertise of tanks confirms that. | Name me one battle that the Leopard fought in.
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
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11-11-2005, 04:24 PM
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#50 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Never said that it has not fought in one. That does not make it a bad tank. It is a very good tank as a matter of fact and ranks up there with the Abrams. The Abrams still is the best tank in the world though.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-11-2005, 06:36 PM
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#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,878
| 2 x Dutch Leopard 1's were besieged in Bosnia / Serbia in the height of the fighting and destroyed I think it was 6 T55/T62. May not sound much but was good going considering that they were surrounded and under UN rules had to let the Serbs shoot first. I understand that the person in charge sucked them into firing at anoher target which gave him the chance. | |
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11-12-2005, 01:52 AM
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#52 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | I dont believe that Leopard 2s have seen combat but they are on the same par as the Abrams.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-12-2005, 02:12 PM
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#53 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,878
| I totally agree with you. | |
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11-12-2005, 02:25 PM
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#54 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,061
Country:  | Certainly, the only tank that may gain an edge is the 'Black Eagle' but that's not even out yet. It's something to look forward to in the future. The Leopard II, Challenger 2, M1A2 Abrams and Merkava are all fighting on an equal footing, all have advantages and disadvantages over the others. Unfortunately for the Leopard II it doesn't have combat experience - maybe Germany should send some to Iraq for testing? 
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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11-13-2005, 07:29 AM
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#55 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | It would be interesting to see how they would handel but then again there would be no tanks for it there to fight.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-13-2005, 08:34 AM
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#56 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,061
Country: | True - Iran then.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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11-13-2005, 01:42 PM
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#57 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Yes Iran would be nice!
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-13-2005, 04:25 PM
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#58 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,878
| Iran had a lot of Chieftains. A generation earlier but I suggest no pushover for any tank.
That said I doubt if they have many or indeed if they have any left after the Iran / Iraq war. | |
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11-13-2005, 04:28 PM
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#59 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | I saw a lot of captured Iranian Chieftains in Iraq. They put them in the boneyards and were using them to reequip the new Iraqi Army.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-13-2005, 05:00 PM
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#60 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,878
| I wish them luck. The chieftain wasn't the most reliable tank in the world and after been captured, left in a boneyard for a few years survived a few sandstorms along the way. I pity anyone trying to make them runners again.
Old British Army of the 70's joke was that the Chieftain had the best armour, the biggest gun, most modern fire control system and was the best tank in the world to go to war in.
It would break down before you got there. | |
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