Best Nightfighter of WW2

Lightning Guy · 06-07-2004, 02:08 PM

So the top P-61 unit was in the ETO and the second was in the PTO. I was pretty close on that. Erich, do you have any info on if those P-38 kills were scored by the field modified nightfighters or simply by conventional P-38s flying at night? I know at least a hand full were field modified to carry radar but have not seen anything on their success.

Erich · 06-07-2004, 03:07 PM

I am going to have to look on that. do have a pic though somewhere of an all black P-38 with the under the nose radar section. whether this flew ops I cannot be certain....................give me just a little time to check. It appears though that the P-38 was the first nf used by the PTO groups until the P-61 became available. And of note as I have mentioned earlier the PTO groups kept the upward forward firing .50's turret as well as the lower fuselgae 20mm's. Dvastating firepower !

E ~

MP-Willow · 06-07-2004, 05:25 PM

Erich, the P-38s with the chin radar I think are factory Ls, but as I write this fast and not double checking I could be wrong. Also the PTO saw the use of navy F6F night fighters and even coursairs and the P-70 was an adaptation of the A-20 to fill the gap until the P-61. If it did not have as meny problums or of the USAAC would have been on the ball with night fighter development we might have seen it sooner!!

Erich · 06-07-2004, 05:46 PM

MP, the PTO is not my theater so to speak so cannot comment except to say that :

6th nfs flew the P-36A, P-40B, P-38, P-47D, P-70 and P-61.
418th flew the P-70, P-38 and P-61
419th and 421st the same three a/c types.

426th, 427th, 548th, 549th and 550th flew the P-61 only.

547th flew the P-38 and then P-61.

that's it and also the P-61 was used as a daytime ground attack a/c against Japanaese harbors and shipping besides against Mt's on roads.

MP-Willow · 06-07-2004, 05:59 PM

Erich thanks. So if we stay with the ETO for now, I still think the P-61 had it's place. I am still trying to understand how the Mossie with all that wood frame survived so well. But that I hope to find out as I read more on it, maybe this weekend after my Hurricane reading.

Stuka-99 · 06-07-2004, 06:53 PM

100% The mossie

Lightning Guy · 06-07-2004, 11:28 PM

The black P-38 with the radar under the chin is a P-38M, a direct conversion from a P-38L-5. I have read of two P-38s in the PTO having radar installed in a modified drop tank and seen a picture of another P-38 with a radar fitted in the nose with YAGI-style antenas projecting from the sides. The P-70 was junk which is why the mechanics in the PTO started field modifying P-38s in the first place.

MP-Willow · 06-08-2004, 05:46 PM

LG thanks. I did not think the P-70 junk but it was a stop gap thing. The PTO also saw the F6F as a very good night fighter as I have been reading.

I am still bothered with why the US was so far off the pace in addopting and developing nightfighters?

Erich · 06-08-2004, 06:09 PM

MP-Willow, there were not enough Mossies and Beu's to go round even in the Med in 1943. When the assault on fortress Europe evolved the US forces had to do something quick and that was get as many P-61's into flight. although tested somewhat against the approacing V-1's the crews and a/c had not had the chance to prove themselves over Europe and in the ensuing battles it was proven that the P-61 in the ETO could not handle the multi-night missions perfoprmed by units like the 422nd and 425th nfs that had abundant crews. in fact in late 44 and into 45 there were sometimes 3-4 different crews flying the same P-61 on nightie-missions. The poor P-61A's were almost flown to a wreck before some B's variants came on board. this was always a complaint of the 3 ETO squadrons that there was never enough equipment to do the job.......

Lightning Guy · 06-09-2004, 12:27 AM

The F6Fs did very well and so did the F4Us. They Army actually asked that they be assigned control of some of the Navy night-fighter squadrons since they were having more success that the P-61s.

MP-Willow · 06-09-2004, 02:03 PM

Thanks all. LG I really like that Picture of the Lighting!

With the poor P-61 in great need of help was there any reason why the production could not be amped up? Say slow production of the P-40 and get the Black Widow into the numbers it needs. But please remember the P-61 was the first try at a night fighter from the start. Now the F7F was much better, shame it was on the carrier sailing to fight when the war ended.

cheddar cheese · 06-09-2004, 04:56 PM

the F7F, that was the tigercat yes?

that would've been good, any info on it?

Lightning Guy · 06-10-2004, 12:21 AM

Grumman F7F-3 Tigercat

Type: Fighter
Crew: 1, Pilot
Armament: four 20mm cannon, four .50 cal machine guns, optional torpedo, 1000 lbs. bombs

Specifications
Length: 45' 4" (13.82 m)
Height: 16' 7" (5.5 m)
Wingspan: 51' 6" (1.68 m)
Wing area: 455 sq. ft (42.27 sq. m)
Empty Weight: 16270 lbs (7378 kg)
Gross Weight: 25720 lbs

Propulsion
No. of Engines: 2
Powerplant: Pratt & Whitney R-2800-34W
Horsepower: 2100 hp each

Performance
Range: 1200 miles (1932 km)
Cruise Speed: 222 mph (357 km/hr)
Max Speed: 435 mph (700 km/hr)
Climb: 4530 ft/min (1380.68 m/min)
Ceiling: 40700 ft (12405 m)

cheddar cheese · 06-10-2004, 03:20 PM

MP-Willow · 06-10-2004, 04:02 PM

LG I thought the Tigercat could carry 2,000lbs of bombs? I will look it back up.

It was a good plane used in Korea, but it would have been a great help in the Marine landings in 1956 on Japan.