Best Nightfighter of WW2

[Huckebein]

Very nice - I will take a look.

[MP-Willow]

Eric, thanks for the information. You as always are educating me on NFs. I have a question about the Me 262A-1 as a night fighter. You said that it was very good and from what I have found I will agree. What I want to ask is the time it took to train on the jet, for new pilots and the aces transfering?

[Erich]

actually this will be covered in some length in our book. When I visited Chino arifield in October some years ago and after the show Luftwaffe vet hans Busch who flew a 262 in KG 51 in 1945 went through a flight check all in Deutsch before he "would take off" It was something like 7-8 minutes long although I am sure he was taking his time with us Americans.........

Kurt Welter in his Kommando would take a real breif time with the pilots and then sit on the wing yelling instructions as the new pilot would casually wander along the tarmac, Welter jumping off as the jet attained some speed. A scary propostion for both Kommandeur and of course pilot with Welter watching closely the whole scenario and giving his critique when the pilot landed. A little bizaree don;t you think ?

[Donnervogel]

have you already heard something of the german nightfighter
Heinkel 219 Uhu?

have you heard something of the german nightfighter Heinkel 219 Uhu? This aircraft had shot 4 Lancasters in one night!

[Erich]

go back and read all the pages in this thread........The UHU was a dog !

my opinion which I know is not agreed by many of the fine members of this board. Ah 4 Lancs in one night is nothing.

How about Martin Becker and crew shooting down 9 Lanc's and a B-17 with their Ju 88G-6 in March of 1945 ! I have the fuyll interview..........

Grüß

Erich ♪

[plan_D]

He did that in the whole month of March or just in one night/day. I mean that amount of bombers on one ammo load, that's some good going.

[Erich]

thought that might get someone to respond

On the Night of march 14/15, 1945 Martin and his three man crew successfully penetrated the bomber stream. The Bordfünker karl Johannsen closed in on the heaviest amount of window and there they were. they readioed in other NJg 6 a/c to no avial and went on a Frei-jagd and Martin shot down 6 lancasters with his forward firing 2cm weapons. the Ju 88G-6 was not equipped with Schräge Musik 2cm weapons. As martin ran out of ammo the Bordfünker took over the rear gunners position annd shot down 1 lanc with the rearward 13mm mg 131 and then a radio fire ensued causing the other two members of the crew to put it out, Karl then shot down another Lanc and finally a B-17 from the RAF sepcial 100th group with the 13mm weapon. An incredible night it was,

Another crew from 5./NJG 2 shot down 8 RAF a/c with their Ju 88G-6 using SM weapons and forward 2cm weapons. The rear gunner shot down 1 lanc with his 13mm fire though the pilot Erich Jung was a bit hesistant. This was also in march the 16/17th 1945 to be exact. have the full story on this incident as well as a full on story of the B-17 downing by one of the RAF crewmen........

E ~

[Erich]

a couple more examples used with SM and forward 2cm weapons. Both pilots/crews flying Ju 88G-6's.

Heinz Rökker of 2./NJG 2 got claims for 6 lancasters on the night of February 21, 1945

Gerhard Raht of I./NJG 2 got claims for 5 RAF 4-eninge bombers on the night of 15 March 1945. Evidetnly a dark night the RAF bombers could not be postively ID'd

Erich ▼

[plan_D]

He must have been a brilliant shot, I mean the Lancaster and B-17 could take some damage. Either the Ju-88 had a large ammo count or he was supernaturally good.
I'm getting your book, just for that story.

[Lightning Guy]

Shnaufer once downed 9 in a single 24hr period in his Bf-110. He shot down 2 after midnight in the early hours of Feb. 21, 1945. He returned to base, rested, took off and shot down a further 7 before midnight came around again.

[Erich]

yes he did but I was posting the case when the crews were just on one mission, non-stop. there were others too that scored as many as four on many an occassion. Quite a feat.

E ♪

[plan_D]

What was the ammo count on the Bf-110. I mean, I feel really stupid for saying this but on Sturmovik (about as real as it'll get, for me) I managed to down four He-111s with a Lagg-3 but I still had to ram the fourth to bring it down. I got home alright but they were only twin engined, how did they down four-engined ones and more of!?

[dead parrot]

Attacking from the front, assuming your aim is good enough, requires a lot less ammunition I would imagine. Hitting the front of the engines works a lot better than the back of them.

Spealing of Il-2, I once blew the wing off a B-17 with about 3 bullets from a Hurricane, in a lucky shot from the front... Whether this has anything to do with real world, I have no idea...

[Erich]

let's not stray too off topic shall we ? remember nf's not what-if's

a Fantasy video game is nothing like the real world. The Luftwaffe frontal attacks were aimed at the cockpit and because of the possibility of collisions which there were some, the attacks were moved to the sides and especially the rear by the summer of 1944 where only the tail gunner had to be contended with until the German a/c had run through the bomber stream then it would take the full force of the other bombers fire. But in the usual case after going past 1-2 other bombers the German a/c would bank either down and away or up to the right or left to get out of harms way. A single 109 or Fw going through a bomber pulk was usually suicidal..........

[dead parrot]

Originally Posted by Erich

let's not stray too off topic shall we ? remember nf's not what-if's

a Fantasy video game is nothing like the real world. The Luftwaffe frontal attacks were aimed at the cockpit and because of the possibility of collisions which there were some, the attacks were moved to the sides and especially the rear by the summer of 1944 where only the tail gunner had to be contended with...(snip)

I really don't know much about the tactics, but coming from the rear, wouldn't the attacker also come under ventral and/or dorsal turret fire, depending on his angle of attack? I understand that bombers were usually attacked from the rear not because it was safer, but because the attacker had a lot longer to line up a shot. If a plane is unprotected in the rear, an attacker can sit there and fire away until his ammo runs out. So bomber builders would be interested in protecting the rear with armaments and armor, non?

This was the point I was speculatively making about attacking from the front. Less guns and less armor there, and therefore, perhaps, less bullets needed for a kill?? And so 10 bombers in one ammo load...