Best U.S night fighter

Gnomey · 09-12-2005, 02:49 PM

I agree Erich, as a night-time ground attack aircraft the P-61 rained supreme over all, but it wasn't quite as good in the night fighter role.

cheddar cheese · 09-12-2005, 02:55 PM

Gonna have to be the P-61.

wmaxt · 09-12-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

I also think it is safe to say the P-61 may well have been one of the best if not thee best night ground attack a/c of the war, much more astute in this role than as a night fighter

I have to agree with this, but it may have been the best US night fighter though the F6F and F4U did a great job too.

The P-61 was to slow to be really good at night fighting and that resulted in the P-38M which never saw action.

I'm not sure what to pick?

wmaxt

Erich · 09-12-2005, 07:38 PM

Something to consider as well is the one man, aka pilot and operator vs the pilot and seperate radar/radio operator in which was much more effective than the pilot alone

R Leonard · 09-12-2005, 09:38 PM

In Pacific Theater nightfighter action, the P-61, as near as I can determine from official USAAF sources shot down 58 enemy aircraft in night missions/intercepts. In the China-Burma-India Theater we can find an additional 5 shoot downs. You have to be careful when you examine the record as a more often seen than not practice was to give credit to all crew members. Thus, in the majority of cases, if there were two crewmen, that’s two credits and if there were three crewmen, then that’s three credits. If you aren’t aware of this common USAAF nightfighter crediting convention you might easily be led to believe that there were 10 enemy planes shot down in night intercepts in the CBI Theater and 122 enemy planes shot down in night intercepts in the Pacific, but no, not so. You have to go back through and make an examination as to who was crewing which airplane during what encounter and that produces the numbers cited above. And how can you be sure? Well, ask yourself, “how many privates, corporals and sergeants do you think were P-61 pilots?” and it suddenly becomes very clear.

On the naval side the big scorer was the F6F, with nightfighter squadrons, detachments thereof, or nightfighter divisions assigned to regular day squadrons, posting a total of 163 victories, according to official USN sources. The next highest naval scorer was the F4U with 16 followed by the PV(N) with 11, the PB4Y with 8, the TBF with 2, and the FM and PBY with one each. When I look back over the record, it appears to me that some of theses shoot downs actually occurred in morning and evening daylight conditions and so cannot be true nightfighter victories. My count, crosschecking with the trusty sunrise/sunset calculator, comes out to 136 for the F6F.

Regards,

Rich

syscom3 · 09-12-2005, 11:09 PM

Theres a fantastic book about the P61 from Schiffer called "Queen of the midnight skies".

The book has loads of interesting info about the US nightfighter effort. I was surprised to find out that the Mosquito was held in higher regard than the P61. But, Britain wouldnt release any Mosquito's to the AAF, so we ended up using it.

Heres some info listed in the Appendix of the book.
Night fighter kills in the CBI:
426th FS had 5 kills
427th FS had 0 Kills.

evangilder · 09-12-2005, 11:14 PM

Actually, I posted some pics a while back of a Mosquito in AAF service. They did operate quite a few. They weren't used for nightfighting duties, that I am aware of, but we did have some.

syscom3 · 09-12-2005, 11:42 PM

I only show one Mosquito equipped night fighter squadron.

It was the 416th.

On the other hand, there were plenty of times when we had Beaufighters.

evangilder · 09-12-2005, 11:47 PM

Both were capable night fighters too. I do know that Mosquitoes in AAF service also operated as pathfinders and weather recon scouts. I would have to do some digging to see what info I have on the Mosquito in AAF service.

Erich · 09-21-2005, 09:19 PM

as I was once a member of the US night fighters association I will tell you from chatting with the 416th nfs rep that they wished they had the P-61 on hand earlier in the war instead of the Mossie. the Mossie was the only thing they had and they used it for effect especially in ground strafing. I have the 416th nfs microfische as well as the 422nd and 425th, 417th nfs.

Said it before will say it again, the US nfs crews wnated a fighter of their own and that was the P-61 Widow which they loved

syscom3 · 09-22-2005, 12:45 AM

Did they give any reasons why they wanted the P61?

It sounded like the mousie was better than the P61.

FLYBOYJ · 09-22-2005, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Did they give any reasons why they wanted the P61?

It sounded like the mousie was better than the P61.

Check the creature comforts between the two and tell me what plane would you rather be in for hours at a time looking for enemy fighters?!?!

I've seen the interiors of both. The P-61 looked way more comfortable and that was probably half the reason there. The Mossie was a great plane but the interior was designed for S&M.

syscom3 · 09-22-2005, 10:00 AM

Leave it to the brits to have a "kinky" airplane.

Erich · 09-22-2005, 12:54 PM

Syscom my last sentance says most of the reason, the US had much pride in it's a/c arsenal and they wanted their own a/c, not something they felt was borrowed.

Glider · 09-22-2005, 04:46 PM

I haven't been in a P61, in fact I haven't seen one, but I have been in a Mossie. Its quite comfy, the crew have a good view and being staggered seats, shoulder room. They were warm to fly in (eat your heart out P3

but the Radar op must have been a little enclosed.
The one I sat in was a bomber so lacked nearly all the electrics of a NF.