Best WWII Air-Force

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-13-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HealzDevo

But still the USAF was fighting on both the European Front and the Pacific Front of the war and winning. Surely that makes them a better airforce than the Germans who were fighting on one front and the Japanese who were fighting on another front. That is equivalent to taking on two big tough opponents and wiping the floor with them what the US eventually did. Sure it did get a bit of a bruising early on but it overcame two major airforces at the same time!

I think that if you go and read the threads you will see that almost everyone is in agreement that the US had the best airforce of WW2.

However as Glider pointed out the US was not the airforce that was fighting on several fronts.

Luftwaffe
West Front
East Front
Med/N. Africa Front
Atlantic

RAF/Royal Navy
West Front
N. Atlantic
Med/N. Africa Front
Pacific
Burma

RAF was fighting the Japanese, Germans, Italians and several other Airforces

Luftwaffe was fighting the RAF, US, Russians and basically everyone else that was not Japan or Italy.

Japan was fighting the RAF, US and a slew of other countries as well.

See what I am getting at...

syscom3 · 06-13-2007, 12:16 PM

USAAF was fighting in:

Med: 12th and 15th AF
Western Europe: 8th and 9th AF

PTO: 5th, 7th,11th and 13th AF
CBI: 10 and 14th AF

20th AF over Japan.

And these totals dont include the air transport service that wasnt officially part of any AF (in the theaters). And it also doesnt include the naval units in the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico and Indian Ocean that flew 4 engine bombers on sub hunting patrols.

Bird-Nerd · 06-16-2007, 11:28 PM

I went for RAF. My grandpa (who was JABO starting in 1943) always said that the battle of britain was were they screwed up big-time and affected the entire outcome. Although now that I think about it the USAAF was better (planes, tactics)... Damn.

HealzDevo · 06-17-2007, 08:34 PM

Ok, but you have to admit that the weight of US Airpower in both sectors at once did affect the outcome quite substantially. Also I take the Best WWII airforce to mean the one that can best achieve its outcomes so that would be the US.

lesofprimus · 06-18-2007, 12:14 AM

And I voted for the US as well, but if u think in terms of the entire conflict, the Germans completely ruled the skies in the beginnings of the War...

The Stuka in its prime????

Come on...

Had the LW been run by someone other than The Fat One, things really could have worked out differently in the latter years of the War... I think everyone knows that already but....

HealzDevo · 06-19-2007, 11:28 PM

The LW would have really had a rough time later on as they were really getting out-classed due to smaller potential aircraft flights. It would have required the Germans not losing the oil-fields of Potez to be able to continue to carry out their offensives. The Stuka was past its prime, so was the He-111, the Bf-109 was okay but it was starting to just about hit the wall in terms of potential performance upgrades in 1944-1945. Also if we are assuming history stayed relatively similar up to a point, the Germans had no chance really without oil. That was why the Battle Of The Bulge was launched- a last dying attempt to snatch a stalemate from the jaws of defeat which failed. Also they were losing experienced pilots to US escort planes and bomber crews. These pilots weren't quite as easy to replace due to problems with getting the oil through to run these aircraft and bombers. Therefore once the oil fields were bombed, in 1943, the LW really didn't have that much of a chance of outright victory.

trackend · 06-20-2007, 04:37 AM

I am undecided. In terms of equipment and organization I say the US the Commonwealth forces where so intermixed I think its hard to pick one for example my uncle was a Wellington pilot flying with the RAF. English he was trained in Canada and had a mixed crew at one time or another of British ,Australian & Canadian It was very much a joint effort .
The Luftwaffe although excellent for Blitzkrieg never had the force in depth required for an extended campaign so IMO lacked the Organizational requirements so aptly displayed by the US.
As for pure pilot ability no overall nation comes out on top, each having good and poor flyer's. The BOB was a major turning point but I believe as much credit has to go to the organization of the tactics and that 20 odd miles of water as should go to the pilots for the victory.
So overall I probably lean slightly in favour of the US

syscom3 · 06-20-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackend

I am undecided. In terms of equipment and organization I say the US the Commonwealth forces where so intermixed I think its hard to pick one for example my uncle was a Wellington pilot flying with the RAF. English he was trained in Canada and had a mixed crew at one time or another of British ,Australian & Canadian It was very much a joint effort .
The Luftwaffe although excellent for Blitzkrieg never had the force in depth required for an extended campaign so IMO lacked the Organizational requirements so aptly displayed by the US.
As for pure pilot ability no overall nation comes out on top, each having good and poor flyer's. The BOB was a major turning point but I believe as much credit has to go to the organization of the tactics and that 20 odd miles of water as should go to the pilots for the victory.
So overall I probably lean slightly in favour of the US

Slightly?

The US completely dominated all the other nations when it came to production and supply of aircraft of all types, not to mention the training of tens of thousands of pilots and ground crews that were of overall good quality.

trackend · 06-20-2007, 03:41 PM

That's what I said sys best and size are not in separable.

Paul Krumrei · 06-21-2007, 11:19 AM

Acutually should it not be the USAAF? Not the Air Force?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-21-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Krumrei

Acutually should it not be the USAAF? Not the Air Force?

People are taking in a informal general way about the Airforces (Army, Navy, and Marine Corps) of the US therefore Air Force as in Forces of the Air.

Soren · 06-21-2007, 01:40 PM

I have to bud in here..

How do you define the best airforce of WWII ??:

1. The best performing AF of the war ?
2. The most advanced AF of the war ?
3. The best equipped AF of the war ?
4. The most successful AF in terms of the total outcome of the war ?
5. The largest AF of the war ?

In my opinion its very hard to define which AirForce was the best of the war as its a combination of many things. The US no doubt held the advantage in terms of numbers of aircraft available, but Germany fielded better & more advanced a/c and Britain did in some areas as-well - the British, Japanese and US fielded carriers though. Other things that have to be taken into account is pilot training, service & field service of a/c, AF doctrine etc etc... how else do you define the best airforce of WW2 ??

Perhaps the title should be the most powerful airforce of WW2 ??

syscom3 · 06-21-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

1. The best performing AF of the war ?

The US incorporated all theories (pre-war and "during the war") of air warfare into a successfull doctrine. The LW was lacking in strategic vision and logistics.

Quote:

2. The most advanced AF of the war ?

For every advanced weapon the LW had, the US had others. Want to talk bombers Soren? Tell me about the LW 4 engined bombers that were the equivelant of the Lanc/B17/B24/B32 and B29. Long range fighters? What was the LW equivelant of the P38 and P51 (and of course the P47N) in terms of range and being able to fight with a good probability you wouldnt be shot down. Want to talk about long range navigation? LORAN was a US invention. Did Germany have anything similar? Aviation Fuels? The US was mass producing hi octane av gas by the tanker load long before the Germans did.

Quote:

3. The best equipped AF of the war ?

The USAAF was so well equiped from 1944 onwards, it dwarfed the other combatants. Soren, did you know that in 1945, B24 groups in the Pacific were told not to waste to much time fixing the damaged bombers as it was easier to get a brand new one than repair them.

Quote:

4. The most successful AF in terms of the total outcome of the war ?

The B29 with an atomic bomb sort of proves the USAAF was on top for your comment.

Quote:

5. The largest AF of the war ?

By 1944, the USAAF was the largest in the world in 1944. In 1945 it was even larger. Then figure in how many aircraft were built for the navy (of which Germany didnt have to use resources for), and the size of the combined army and navy air forces was staggering.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-21-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soren

I have to bud in here..

How do you define the best airforce of WWII ??:

1. The best performing AF of the war ?
2. The most advanced AF of the war ?
3. The best equipped AF of the war ?
4. The most successful AF in terms of the total outcome of the war ?
5. The largest AF of the war ?

In my opinion its very hard to define which AirForce was the best of the war as its a combination of many things. The US no doubt held the advantage in terms of numbers of aircraft available, but Germany fielded better & more advanced a/c and Britain did in some areas as-well - the British, Japanese and US fielded carriers though. Other things that have to be taken into account is pilot training, service & field service of a/c, AF doctrine etc etc... how else do you define the best airforce of WW2 ??

Perhaps the title should be the most powerful airforce of WW2 ??

The best airforce should be the one that has the most capability and can project its power the most.

In the beginning of the war that would have been the Luftwaffe but by the late parts of the war the US takes its place and never lets go and has been the most powerful, most capable and most projectable force the world has ever seen.

trackend · 06-22-2007, 06:13 AM

Sorry guys if I pushed the thread off in a bit of a tangent.