Best WWII Air-Force

[trackend]

Just a thought but the RAF & all Commonwealth air forces were very eclectic my Uncles Wellington had two Canadians and an Australian in its crew so I think they were really an amalgamated commonwealth air force, so IMO it makes it quite hard to separate the RCAF, the RAF & the RAAF

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by renrich

Bill, wish you would clarify something for me. Earlier in this thread you were comparing Mustang sorties, losses and kills with Jugs and P38s. Said something like their kills were mostly German. Are you saying that some of those awarded kills were not German, perhaps japanese? The reason I ask is that the sortie numbers and loss numbers jibe exactly with mine but I am under the impression those sortie numbers were all in the ETO.

Renrich - you are right about the ETO - I checked my sources again. I should have caught the mistake just by the P-38 numbers as they had nearly that many in PTO alone.

[renrich]

One of the numbers in those stats from the ETO that caught my eye was that the P51 had almost as many losses as the P47 yet flew roughly only half the sorties. While the P38 in spite of having the extra engine to come home on(or maybe because of it) had a loss rate almost twice that of the P47. By the way, Bill, thanks for the clarification.

[drgondog]

Stafing airfields a lot will that for you.

Using the 355th FG as an example - of the 190+ a/c lost for all causes (air, flak, mechanical, wether, accident) they lost 92 to flak, more than double the air losses to German fighters..

The P-38 had a huge percentage to engine related losses in the ETO.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by trackend

Just a thought but the RAF & all Commonwealth air forces were very eclectic my Uncles Wellington had two Canadians and an Australian in its crew so I think they were really an amalgamated commonwealth air force, so IMO it makes it quite hard to separate the RCAF, the RAF & the RAAF

I agree that most of the RAF Squadrons were cosmopolitan but if you look at the RCAF and RAAF (unsure about RNZAF) squadrons they were made up of mostly nationals. I am reading about one RCAF guy who had to sign over to the RAF so he could join a RAF squadron . The RCAF and RAAF were paid much better then the RAF and it caused grief if some were paid better then others of the same rank and same squadron. The RCAF also pushed for commissioned ranks for aircrew as the crews were pissed that they couldn't eat or hang together becauxe some were NCO's and others commissioned

[Glider]

The RCAF, RAAF and RSAAF could be considered as part of the RAF as they were paid for and equipped by Britain. Something I only picked up a few weeks ago.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by Glider

The RCAF, RAAF and RSAAF could be considered as part of the RAF as they were paid for and equipped by Britain. Something I only picked up a few weeks ago.

would be interested in seeing that as I believe we paid our own way if not more . But I have been wrong before. If I am correct the UK paid of its last war debts to Canada on 12/29/06 the same time they finished with US

[renrich]

I wonder what percentage of the P47 sorties were air to ground versus the escort missions compared to P51 same type sorties. Of course, I imagine late in the war both types engaged in TO type operations after an escort mission was completed.

[trackend]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I agree that most of the RAF Squadrons were cosmopolitan but if you look at the RCAF and RAAF (unsure about RNZAF) squadrons they were made up of mostly nationals. I am reading about one RCAF guy who had to sign over to the RAF so he could join a RAF squadron . The RCAF and RAAF were paid much better then the RAF and it caused grief if some were paid better then others of the same rank and same squadron. The RCAF also pushed for commissioned ranks for aircrew as the crews were pissed that they couldn't eat or hang together becauxe some were NCO's and others commissioned

Sorry PB for the confusion although it appears the way I put it that my uncle was in the RAF, he was actually in 429 Bison Squadron of the RCAF.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by trackend

Sorry PB for the confusion although it appears the way I put it that my uncle was in the RAF, he was actually in 429 Bison Squadron of the RCAF.

Flight engineer I'm going to guess we were short of them initially. I worked with 429 for about 2 years

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by trackend

Just a thought but the RAF & all Commonwealth air forces were very eclectic my Uncles Wellington had two Canadians and an Australian in its crew so I think they were really an amalgamated commonwealth air force, so IMO it makes it quite hard to separate the RCAF, the RAF & the RAAF

Very true, for anyone who's interested, here's an example. On the 1st of Jan 1945, there was 2621 RAAF aircrew spread amonst 214 RAF squadrons. According the the official history, this meant that at this time there were RAAF aircrew in all but 88 RAF squadrons, which were Czech, Polish, Canadian, French etc squadrons where they were excluded anyway. Like Trackie said, this makes it very difficult to separate the men of various nationalities.

[trackend]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Flight engineer I'm going to guess we were short of them initially. I worked with 429 for about 2 years

He was a Sgt pilot PB got shot down and killed on his seventh misson
heres a link to my thread about him
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...cord-3077.html

[pbfoot]

I agree with the fact many squadrons were mixed but a very large percentage of Commonwealth squadrons were made up by nationals . A full 25% of bomber command was Canadian . I sort of reverse engineered this by checking on the crews involved in losses by looking up squadrons like RAAF 460 and 6 gp squadrons
Lost Bombers - World War II Lost Bombers

[mosquitoman]

Whilst each Commonwealth country had its own Royal Canadian/Australian/New Zealand/South African (delete as appropriate) Air Force, they all eventually came under the control of Sir Charles Portal, Chief of Air Staff. Therefore, IMO they all come under the heading of the RAF.

[Hop]

I am not aware of any comprehensive list of BC aircrew by nationality, but the fatal casualties were all recorded:

RAF - 69.2%
RCAF - 17.8%
RAAF - 7.3%
RNZAF - 3%
PAF - 1.7%
Other - 1%

Those are casualties rather than numbers served, but should be fairly accurate for aircrew.