Best WWII Air-Force

[pbfoot]

Under the heading of Bomber Command yes RAF no.

6 Group RCAF "Situated 4 miles east of Knaresborough, a 75 room mansion on a 2000 acre estate, Allerton Park Castle was requisitioned by the Air Ministry from Lord Mowbray. This castle was then transformed into offices and was the administration and operations headquarters of the Canadian [6 Group] Bomber Command. On Dec 6,1942, headquarters was moved from the temporary site at Linton on Ouse to Allerton Park. The 6 Group officially reached operational status at 00.01 on Jan 1,1943. With this in affect, the Canadian squadrons ceased to take orders from 4 Group, and now reported directly to bomber command headquarters in High Wycombe. The financial responsibility for aircraft maintenance and administration was now looked after by the Canadian governmen. The order of battle will show which squadrons and airfields came on line as of this date. All 6 Group airfields were located in North Yorkshire and therefore had the furthest to fly when attacking most targets. Because of the topographic features in this area, the airfields were close together, and circuits overlapped, making flying hazardous. This,along with fog and industrial smog, made takeoffs and landings very stressful on the aircrews and airfield controllers. Allerton Park was also responsible to insure that all squadrons complied with instructions from bomber command as to routes, bombload, bombing height, and timing over the target. The stations were responsible for accommodation, feeding, and maintenance of squadron aircraft."


The RCAF guys were not all that fond of all the Brit senior officers
Broadhurst even said he didn't like the Colonials

[Glider]

Interesting additional detail, many thanks

[claidemore]

I voted for the RCAF.

A country with less than 12 million people, ended up with the fourth largest airforce in the world by 1945. 200,000 aircrew, (not including those in RAF service), 48 squadrons overseas, and Canada trained an additional 80 operational squadrons through BCATP. In fact they trained so many pilots, they were told to stop it already!

There are very good reasons to choose some of the other airforces as the best, but...at the end of the day...which airforce had the best hockey team? I think we all know who I'm talking about..... lol

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by claidemore

I voted for the RCAF.

A country with less than 12 million people, ended up with the fourth largest airforce in the world by 1945. 200,000 aircrew, (not including those in RAF service), 48 squadrons overseas, and Canada trained an additional 80 operational squadrons through BCATP. In fact they trained so many pilots, they were told to stop it already!

There are very good reasons to choose some of the other airforces as the best, but...at the end of the day...which airforce had the best hockey team? I think we all know who I'm talking about..... lol

And it was such a distant 4th to the AAF, it didnt even count.

The USN had an even larger naval air corps than Canada did.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by syscom3

And it was such a distant 4th to the AAF, it didnt even count.

The USN had an even larger naval air corps than Canada did.

We've always been a believer of quality rather then quantity and if you check out some of your better ETO pilots you would see they were trained by the RCAF and if we were that bad or useless why did 6667 US citizens out of the 8800 that joined the RCAF as aircrew before you guys decided to play remain with the RCAF rather then return to US Forces when you joined the game (been waiting to use that stat for a while thanks for the opening)

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

We've always been a believer of quality rather then quantity and if you check out some of your better ETO pilots you would see they were trained by the RCAF and if we were that bad or useless why did 6667 US citizens out of the 8800 that joined the RCAF as aircrew before you guys decided to play remain with the RCAF rather then return to US Forces when you joined the game (been waiting to use that stat for a while thanks for the opening)

As stated by many people in many ways, only the USAAF had the industrial, scientific, logistics and manpower base to produce excellent aircraft in every category. And it was global in reach.

No shall we talk about the vast hordes of well trained pilots, aircrew and support personell that made the whole machine run?

Admit to the obvious. The USAAF (and USN) was magnitudes better (in sum total) than everyone else!

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by syscom3

As stated by many people in many ways, only the USAAF had the industrial, scientific, logistics and manpower base to produce excellent aircraft in every category. And it was global in reach.

No shall we talk about the vast hordes of well trained pilots, aircrew and support personell that made the whole machine run?

Admit to the obvious. The USAAF (and USN) was magnitudes better (in sum total) than everyone else!

In numbers and and in infrastructure only but not quality

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

In numbers and and in infrastructure only but not quality

heres a partial list of aircraft built by the US that can be considered as being excellent in one regard or another.

P38
P47
P51
F6F
F4U
A20
A26
B25
B26
B17
B24
B29
TBF
SBD
C46
C47
C54
PBY

Now what were you saying about a lack of quality?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

and if we were that bad or useless why did 6667 US citizens out of the 8800 that joined the RCAF as aircrew before you guys decided to play remain with the RCAF rather then return to US Forces when you joined the game (been waiting to use that stat for a while thanks for the opening)

Very simple - medical reasons and enlisment problems (age). Some of those who went with the RAF/ RCAF were denied commissions or were told that if they switched over there would be a reduction in rank and pay....

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by claidemore

I voted for the RCAF.

A country with less than 12 million people, ended up with the fourth largest airforce in the world by 1945. 200,000 aircrew, (not including those in RAF service), 48 squadrons overseas, and Canada trained an additional 80 operational squadrons through BCATP. In fact they trained so many pilots, they were told to stop it already!

There are very good reasons to choose some of the other airforces as the best, but...at the end of the day...which airforce had the best hockey team? I think we all know who I'm talking about..... lol

I respect all the Air/Naval Air Forces that fought in WWII.

Having said that, which Air Power had the resources, quality, depth of power in the field and reserves to perform all the missions everywhere in the world and win?

Those (if more than one) can be put into a short list - RAF is close.

I am not dimissing Germany or RCAF or Japan or USSR. But, for example, none of those could field the air and naval power to assault Japan, or by comparison Japan or Germany mount any kind of meaningful campaign against the Americas.

You can debate the point through 1942 as the US was not the 'best' at the end of 1942 (in my opinion). 1943 is the transition when US put quality AND numbers everywhere on the globe. 1944 (again, my opinion) is when USAAF and USN were clearly the best and August 6, 1945 forever changed the meaning of 'best'.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by drgondog

Having said that, which Air Power had the resources, quality, depth of power in the field and reserves to perform all the missions everywhere in the world and win?

And that pretty much sums it up...

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

could the RAF accomplish the same thing as the USAAF in all theatres of the war . The Usaaf the dominant force in both the ETO and PTO what else can you say .That is something I don't think any other force could say

from page one of this discussion. Now as for the guys from the US that wouldn't revert to the USAAF they were not old and unable to receive commissions Blakesee didn't want to go , McCarthy of Dambusters fame became Canadian . Most were all offered equivilant rank or higher in the USAAF and the higher pay .I think if you'd ask them the RCAF was more fun . Heres a little blurb from one of the Yanks in the RCAF talking about the possibility of joining the Eagle Squadrons as they were switching over to USAAF
"Don Blakeslee, whose name would become synonomous with the Fourth Fighter Group, wanted nothing to do with the Eagles when he got to England in 1941. "They were getting all kinds of publicity," he remembered with disdain, "they were newspaper fighter pilots." Jim Goodson flew with 416 Squadron RCAF. After Pearl Harbor there were already rumors that the Eagles would join the U.S.A.A.F., but he made no move to change his assignment."

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

from page one of this discussion. Now as for the guys from the US that wouldn't revert to the USAAF they were not old and unable to receive commissions Blakesee didn't want to go , McCarthy of Dambusters fame became Canadian . Most were all offered equivilant rank or higher in the USAAF and the higher pay .I think if you'd ask them the RCAF was more fun . Heres a little blurb from one of the Yanks in the RCAF talking about the possibility of joining the Eagle Squadrons as they were switching over to USAAF
"Don Blakeslee, whose name would become synonomous with the Fourth Fighter Group, wanted nothing to do with the Eagles when he got to England in 1941. "They were getting all kinds of publicity," he remembered with disdain, "they were newspaper fighter pilots." Jim Goodson flew with 416 Squadron RCAF. After Pearl Harbor there were already rumors that the Eagles would join the U.S.A.A.F., but he made no move to change his assignment."

But where did Blakeslee and Goodson eventually wind up?????

I don' buy the part about 6000+ US citizens staying with the RCAF or the RAF "just because it was better." I'm sure there were either financial or personal reasons behind this.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

But where did Blakeslee and Goodson eventually wind up?????

I don' buy the part about 6000+ US citizens staying with the RCAF or the RAF "just because it was better." I'm sure there were either financial or personal reasons behind this.

I probably think it was camadrie but the numbers are correct. Blakesee was caught banging 2 WAAF (enlisted) and given the option to transfer to USAAF or court martial he didn't want to go to the USAAF. and lets not forget Gentile, Beeson Godfrey we trained them so our methods can't be all that bad .

[claidemore]

Let's keep in mind that 'best' is a qualitative, and not a quantitative term and is always a matter of opinion.

Yes, the USA had the most industrial capacity, so of course it was the biggest. Biggest ain't always best.

My point, and my opinion, is that a country with ONLY 12 million people had an truly excellent airforce, based on it's population and financial resources. 2% of Canadas population was in the airforce in 1945. Can anyone top that?

Canada started the war with 3 overseas squadrons, and grew to 48, that I believe is an unprecedented growth rate. Training 80 operational squadrons is also a significant contribution. RAF would have struggled without it.

Canada had the leading fighter squadron in the 2TAF, if you want an example of performance excellence.

Canada also quite correctly choose the P51 as its primary fighter; post 1945, due to it's long range capabilities which are well suited to the long distances involved in North America, an indication of good leadership and planning. (they could have chosen the Spit, which every canadian loved, but it wasn't the right plane for the job)

The leading British ace, Johnnie Johnson, preferred to fly with Canadians.

And let's not forget the Canadian contribution on the ground, we had our own beach on D-Day, and Canadians were commonly used as shock troops and earned the respect and admiration of all allied commanders.

But now I must go and plow the snow out of my driveway....