Best WWII Air-Force

Civettone · 02-26-2007, 02:01 PM

Ok, let's look at this at a critical and empirical point of view ...

condensing ...

condensing ...

"most women pilots ... ruskies"

A ha!!

!! Russian AF!!

Kris

bigZ · 02-26-2007, 05:30 PM

Pilots from the Russian 586th Women's Fighter Regiment. Kris your welcome to them.

fat flyer · 02-26-2007, 08:56 PM

The best airforce in WW2 in the US. The US brought the fight to the enemy and emerged at the end of the war as undisputed in air supremacy.

Civettone · 02-27-2007, 02:29 AM

Damn, BigZ!

Well, I found on the Marina Raskova and the Soviet Women Pilots of World War II website some more 'ugly' women but let's just stick to the beauties, agreed?

Miss Natlya Meklin flew 840 missions!

Kris

Vassili Zaitzev · 02-28-2007, 05:43 PM

hey, haven't been in here in a while, just post my opinion.
my vote goes to the USAAF, though I would've voted Finns if they were on there.

Cyrano · 02-28-2007, 08:54 PM

Lilya Litvak - White Rose of Stalingrad:

Killed in combat 1. August 1943

YakFlyer · 03-03-2007, 02:07 AM

interesting stuff, I'd go with USAAF if it weren't for the fact that they were so far behind innitially, but they did catch up quickly.

RAF is my pick.

Herr_Scheiker · 03-04-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I agree too, that is why I voted for the USAAF.

Air forces are part of armed forces, so can not be considered alone.

USAF against Luftwaffe Alone? With the Germans not having to divide their forces? Can not compare, for me the Germans where the best, they had to fight the russians, the RAF, USAF, Polish, French, Greeks, Dutch, Canadian, etc. and were able to do it during 5 years, and they did it with no resources, while suffering civil population bombardement, industrial destruction, fighting 5 fronts, etc., period.

Glider · 03-04-2007, 05:21 PM

Whilst there is no doubt that the German Air Force did well compared to what they were up against, its also true to say that they were on the defensive from 1942 onwards. Defensive single engined fighters are much easier to produce that bombers let alone 4 engined bombers and transport planes.

To decide on the best air force you need to consider all the requirements placed against that nation. Only the USA met the requirements in both quality and quantity to fulfill those needs.

The Germans lacked transport, Recce, maritime recce, naval aircraft and strategic bombers in particular.

bigZ · 03-04-2007, 05:35 PM

Scheiker you talk correctly of the air forces being integrated with all the other armed services but then screw it up by trying to divorce it from the strategic reality.

A serious shortcoming of the Luftwaffe is its leadership above mid level. USAF beats it handsdown.The Luftwaffe was primarily tacticial airforce due to geographical location and a lack of materials pre war which fortunately meant it could not wage a strategic campain anyway near the same level as the USAF. An example of incompetence at high level was the fall of France which released an abundance of raw materials/factories/manpower which the Luftwaffe did not capitalise on it.

FLYBOYJ · 03-04-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr_Scheiker

for me the Germans where the best, they had to fight the russians, the RAF, USAF, Polish, French, Greeks, Dutch, Canadian, etc. and were able to do it during 5 years, and they did it with no resources, while suffering civil population bombardement, industrial destruction, fighting 5 fronts, etc., period.

And they lost....

Would of could of should of....

bigZ · 03-04-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

And they lost....

Would of could of should of....

Damn right.

Because of the lack of decent arguments for the Luftwaffe. I get a feeling that most people are voting for Luftwaffe just on the basis of a range of sexy aircraft towards the end of the war and the high scores of the aces.

pbfoot · 03-04-2007, 07:26 PM

The luftwaffe was on its heals after the 8th af started to seriously attacking the Germany proper in a head to head challenge in 1944 the USAAC beat down Luftwaffe strength and became the prey no longer an attacking force but one that was cornered fighting for its very existance. I believe the air force that was 2nd best would be a better poll. The luftwaffe never had a strategic component worth talking about and although they tried the transports and coastal forces were totally lacking

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-05-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr_Scheiker

Air forces are part of armed forces, so can not be considered alone.

What are you talking about? The Army and the Navy have nothing to do with what is the best airforce? Sorry...

Granted a good military can use its Airforce and Army combined in joint operations but tanks on the ground and infantry and the Battleships on the seas do not determine what is the best airforce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Scheiker

USAF against Luftwaffe Alone? With the Germans not having to divide their forces? Can not compare, for me the Germans where the best, they had to fight the russians, the RAF, USAF, Polish, French, Greeks, Dutch, Canadian, etc. and were able to do it during 5 years, and they did it with no resources, while suffering civil population bombardement, industrial destruction, fighting 5 fronts, etc., period.

Bit off more than they could chew.

The Luftwaffe had great aircraft but the best aircraft in the world are not going to save you from the massive numbers of allied aircraft in the air.

Combine that with poor leadership, and lack of specialized aircraft such as strategic bombers and a better strategic cargo and transport for logistics and inferior numbers they were certainly not the best.

I love Luftwaffe aircraft and think that the best aircraft of the war were German but I will not kid myself into believing that the Luftwaffe was the best airforce in WW2. From 1939 to 1942 I would say yes they were, but after that it went downhill real fast.

Udet · 03-06-2007, 05:51 PM

These sort of topics deserve special treatment. It is in a way similar to those "Best/Worst" "Fighter/Bomber/Bomber Destroyer" type of aircraft.

In the end the allies reached the adequate balance of ingredients in the recipe to defeat the enemy:

(i) A huge red army that proceeded ahead with complete disregard for losses; this is probably one of the most critical elements within the allied chain: the guys of the US Army and British Army were simply not willing to spend too much of their own blood -ask the U.S. Army after getting gutted by Rommel in the Kasserine experience-; if you have an ally that simply does not give a crap about any number of his own dead, wounded or missing, better impossible. Make a smart use of such condition, but also respond to his whining urging you for more support -opening more fronts-; sure, support him, but in the manner that suits you better.

Still, all that size and willingness to loose soldiers and war materiel is of very little use for the USSR if the USAAF is not in the air farther west Europe, and if the U.S Army and Brits do not land in North Africa/Mediterranean/Normandy.

(ii) A good and powerful combination of naval assets in the atlantic (USN/RN);

(iii) A large, powerful and competitive USAAF making the bigger part of the aerial work, and also a RAF and a less competitive VVS.

Still, my vote goes for the USAAF, hands down.

Although there are many aspects regarding the overall perfomance of the USAAF in the ETO that are way too much overhyped also featuring an interesting and juicy menu of myths (Mustangs, "Big Week" type of battles, accuracy of bomber missions, etc.) it is simply the best overall aerial branch in the war.

Without the type of display of the USAAF in the ETO the poor RAF goes nowhere and the aid of the soviet air force is simply not enough either.