Do 335 vs Me 262 - Page 6 - Aircraft of World War II

Soren · 09-20-2008, 04:32 PM

You can believe what you want as-well Juha, as usual.

As for my signature, well tell me what's wrong with it ? The answer is 'Nothing'. What Galland said is that only fifty 262's were 'allowed to be used as fighters', by which he means NOT as fighter-bombers as Hitler wanted. Or are you trying to suggest that the JagdGeschwaders didn't contain any fighter-bombers ??? If so I suggest you research the subject just abit.

Juha · 09-20-2008, 04:39 PM

Soren
JG 7 and KG(J) 54 flew daytime interception missions, that was their job. If that is new for you, read even some modern books on Me 262.
And do you really believe that 10./NJG 11 was a fighter bomber unit?

Juha

Soren · 09-20-2008, 05:12 PM

Did I ever mention the NachtJagdGeschwaders ?? Nope.

So tell me Juha, in which engagement did over 50 Me-262 fighters take part ? None that I know of.

Oh and btw, KG 54 mainly flew fighter-bomber missions.

Like I said, Galland just told it how it was.

Juha · 09-21-2008, 02:12 AM

Hello Soren
Quote;"in which engagement did over 50 Me-262 fighters take part"

As I wrote, on 10 April 45, JG 7 alone sent 55 Me 262s to intercept a huge USAAF bomber raid.

Quote:"Oh and btw, KG 54 mainly flew fighter-bomber missions"

No, as the (J) in the correct unit designation shows, it was a fighter unit. KG 51, without (J), was the fighter bomber unit.

I hope you will show a little more respect to JG 7 pilots, for ex to
Majors Ehler, Eder, Hohagen, Rudorffer, Späte, Staiger, Weissenberger, Hptms Reinert, Schall, Oblts Schuck, Waldmann, Lts Rademacher and Tegtmeier to name only few. They really were jet fighter pilots. Steinhoff was the CO of JG 7 before he was sacked.

So IMHO you should update your knowledge on Me 262 operations, the truth is a bit different from what Galland's wrote. But of course its up to You. Have a nice Sunday.

Juha

Soren · 09-21-2008, 11:04 AM

I think you will find that the JG 7 didn't send up 55 fighters, and that a good number of the a/c were A-2a fighter bombers. (Yes the JG-7 contained A-2a fighter-bombers)

And I hope you'll show abit more respect for Galland in the future.

Erich · 09-21-2008, 11:10 AM

I'm sorry but you are incorrect Soren, there were no a-2's in JG 7 in April of 45 delegated out to the bomber units. there were more than 55 jets in the air on April 10th, as JG 7 was not alone in the air.

remember Galland was not at the forefront of tech for JG 7 nor was he a pilot within that JG, he had nothing to do with it's operations. he was always given second/third hand info on the defense of the Reich and had to trust that info no-matter how inaaccurate or delicate it was to be.

Soren · 09-21-2008, 11:30 AM

What about Yellow 5 Me-262 A-2 W.Nr. 110007 flown by VFF2 Anton Schoppler of II./JG 7 ?

Erich · 09-21-2008, 11:49 AM

ah Soren II. gruppe never had their own A/C. he flew an A-1a on Feb. 14, 1945 while serving in 11./Jg 7's third gruppe and claimed to have shot down 1 B-17 as an Unteroffizier.
the same applied when he claimed a P-51D on 3rd of February 1945.

I see that his 11th staffel should of been given red numbers while 9th had white confirmed, 10th had yellow and the 10/11th staffels traded jets as they became available to avilable pilots. Pilots flew even jets in several different numerations and did not have an assigned A/C as such in earlywar. Anton seemed to be an unknown like many of AJG 7 pilots and have found he had upwards of 7 victories to his credit.

as to designations of Jg 7 or other jet units there is a proliferation of sub types given. KG 54(J) has A-1a's in their line up confirmed, JV 44 we do know had fighter bomber sub-types which of course were not used in that role. the R$M rocket firing types the A-1b in truth is just an A-1a with wooden racks and was called such in the ranks.

EKG 1 and 2 flew several variants as well.

Soren · 09-21-2008, 12:05 PM

I just find it hard to believe that Galland was given operational numbers which were incorrect, he afterall had to go tell Hitler about it and I'm sure more Jets active meant a happier Hitler. So I could understand if he raised the number of a/c actaully in operation for the sake of not upsetting Hitler, but lowering the figure would make no sense?

Erich · 09-21-2008, 12:12 PM

think what you will, I am telling you this from the JG 7 operational record(s).

Galland had to give intel on his little JV 44 on a daily basis no doubt figures where enhanced to suit the suitors in the upper sphere of non-reality-Hitler and his staff...JV 44 given credit for the destruction of B-26's when they were only damaged, etc. It makes perfect sense to not hear the daily wrath of some fool still in power

Soren · 09-21-2008, 12:37 PM

That's exactly what I was saying Erich. Hitler wouldn't be pleased to hear that only a handful of Me-262's were operational, so why lower the figure ?

Erich · 09-21-2008, 12:45 PM

again I am wondering what G based his comments on in your siggy which is bogus

Soren · 09-21-2008, 12:57 PM

Perhaps he was talking about the JV44 ?

drgondog · 09-21-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soren

Perhaps he was talking about the JV44 ?

That would be my guess

Erich · 09-21-2008, 01:31 PM

agreed

View Poll Results: Do 335 vs Me 262?
Do 335	10	20.83%
Me 262	38	79.17%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

09-20-2008, 05:12 PM	#78
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	Did I ever mention the NachtJagdGeschwaders ?? Nope. So tell me Juha, in which engagement did over 50 Me-262 fighters take part ? None that I know of. Oh and btw, KG 54 mainly flew fighter-bomber missions. Like I said, Galland just told it how it was. Last edited by Soren; 09-20-2008 at 05:18 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

09-20-2008, 04:32 PM	#76
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	You can believe what you want as-well Juha, as usual. As for my signature, well tell me what's wrong with it ? The answer is 'Nothing'. What Galland said is that only fifty 262's were 'allowed to be used as fighters', by which he means NOT as fighter-bombers as Hitler wanted. Or are you trying to suggest that the JagdGeschwaders didn't contain any fighter-bombers ??? If so I suggest you research the subject just abit.

09-20-2008, 04:39 PM	#77
Juha Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Helsinki Posts: 1,561	Soren JG 7 and KG(J) 54 flew daytime interception missions, that was their job. If that is new for you, read even some modern books on Me 262. And do you really believe that 10./NJG 11 was a fighter bomber unit? Juha

09-21-2008, 02:12 AM	#79
Juha Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Helsinki Posts: 1,561	Hello Soren Quote;"in which engagement did over 50 Me-262 fighters take part" As I wrote, on 10 April 45, JG 7 alone sent 55 Me 262s to intercept a huge USAAF bomber raid. Quote:"Oh and btw, KG 54 mainly flew fighter-bomber missions" No, as the (J) in the correct unit designation shows, it was a fighter unit. KG 51, without (J), was the fighter bomber unit. I hope you will show a little more respect to JG 7 pilots, for ex to Majors Ehler, Eder, Hohagen, Rudorffer, Späte, Staiger, Weissenberger, Hptms Reinert, Schall, Oblts Schuck, Waldmann, Lts Rademacher and Tegtmeier to name only few. They really were jet fighter pilots. Steinhoff was the CO of JG 7 before he was sacked. So IMHO you should update your knowledge on Me 262 operations, the truth is a bit different from what Galland's wrote. But of course its up to You. Have a nice Sunday. Juha

09-21-2008, 11:04 AM	#80
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	I think you will find that the JG 7 didn't send up 55 fighters, and that a good number of the a/c were A-2a fighter bombers. (Yes the JG-7 contained A-2a fighter-bombers) And I hope you'll show abit more respect for Galland in the future.

09-21-2008, 11:10 AM	#81
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 11,113	I'm sorry but you are incorrect Soren, there were no a-2's in JG 7 in April of 45 delegated out to the bomber units. there were more than 55 jets in the air on April 10th, as JG 7 was not alone in the air. remember Galland was not at the forefront of tech for JG 7 nor was he a pilot within that JG, he had nothing to do with it's operations. he was always given second/third hand info on the defense of the Reich and had to trust that info no-matter how inaaccurate or delicate it was to be.

09-21-2008, 11:30 AM	#82
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	What about Yellow 5 Me-262 A-2 W.Nr. 110007 flown by VFF2 Anton Schoppler of II./JG 7 ?

09-21-2008, 11:49 AM	#83
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 11,113	ah Soren II. gruppe never had their own A/C. he flew an A-1a on Feb. 14, 1945 while serving in 11./Jg 7's third gruppe and claimed to have shot down 1 B-17 as an Unteroffizier. the same applied when he claimed a P-51D on 3rd of February 1945. I see that his 11th staffel should of been given red numbers while 9th had white confirmed, 10th had yellow and the 10/11th staffels traded jets as they became available to avilable pilots. Pilots flew even jets in several different numerations and did not have an assigned A/C as such in earlywar. Anton seemed to be an unknown like many of AJG 7 pilots and have found he had upwards of 7 victories to his credit. as to designations of Jg 7 or other jet units there is a proliferation of sub types given. KG 54(J) has A-1a's in their line up confirmed, JV 44 we do know had fighter bomber sub-types which of course were not used in that role. the R$M rocket firing types the A-1b in truth is just an A-1a with wooden racks and was called such in the ranks. EKG 1 and 2 flew several variants as well.

09-21-2008, 12:05 PM	#84
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	I just find it hard to believe that Galland was given operational numbers which were incorrect, he afterall had to go tell Hitler about it and I'm sure more Jets active meant a happier Hitler. So I could understand if he raised the number of a/c actaully in operation for the sake of not upsetting Hitler, but lowering the figure would make no sense?

09-21-2008, 12:12 PM	#85
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 11,113	think what you will, I am telling you this from the JG 7 operational record(s). Galland had to give intel on his little JV 44 on a daily basis no doubt figures where enhanced to suit the suitors in the upper sphere of non-reality-Hitler and his staff...JV 44 given credit for the destruction of B-26's when they were only damaged, etc. It makes perfect sense to not hear the daily wrath of some fool still in power

09-21-2008, 12:37 PM	#86
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	That's exactly what I was saying Erich. Hitler wouldn't be pleased to hear that only a handful of Me-262's were operational, so why lower the figure ?

09-21-2008, 12:45 PM	#87
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 11,113	again I am wondering what G based his comments on in your siggy which is bogus

09-21-2008, 12:57 PM	#88
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	Perhaps he was talking about the JV44 ?

09-21-2008, 01:31 PM	#90
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 11,113	agreed