F-14 vs F-15 vs F-16

Soren · 10-22-2008, 07:23 PM

Which is the best fighter in your opinion regardless of track record, based mostly on ability, flight characteristics etc etc..

I know this will be an interesting debate when I will start off by saying I believe the F-14 is the best, and yet it is the only one of the three to be out of service (mostly due to cost & maintenance issues).

comiso90 · 10-22-2008, 08:25 PM

They each performed the role for which they were designed very well.

F-15 most dominating
F-14 most innovative
F-16 most cost effective

The F-14 was a fantastic plane but to attain the mantle of "Best" I believe cost, maintenance and longevity must be considered. That makes me like the F-15.

But If I were in a short war had to choose between an air force consisting solely of 500 F-14s or 500 F-15's, I'd have to choose the F-14 cause of the Phoenix missile.

,

Matt308 · 10-22-2008, 09:07 PM

Wow. Rather a silly discussion isn't it? Without some operational context, mission need and order of battle this quickly will blur into a debate about "top speed", "range" and "best load-out".

I'll pass.

SoD Stitch · 10-23-2008, 12:04 AM

Gotta go with the F-15, especially considering it's >100-to-0 victory ratio. Unfortunately, the F-14 was originally hampered by it's '60's-era TF-30 low bypass-ratio turbofans, which didn't provide enough thrust to make it competitive with contemporary fighters (like the F-15 and -16); it didn't really come into it's own until it (finally) received the engine it should've had from the beginning, the GE F-110, with a 25% increase in dry thrust. The ultimate model of the Tomcat, the F-14D, was really too late to have an effect on naval tactics.

However, if I had to chose an a/c for a 1-v-1 encounter, I would choose the F-15C over a late-model Tomcat, even with the Phoenix AIM-54C; for a fighter, the F-15 has the most advanced ECM suite of any a/c flying (with the exception of the F-22), so I believe the on-board AN/ALQ-135 EIC of the Eagle would probably defeat the terminal guidance radar of the Phoenix, giving the -15 the chance to hit the Tomcat with it's AIM-120C AMRAAM's at +/- 50 NM. If the F-15 fails to jam or spoof the Phoenix, it should be able to outmaneuver the Mach 6 Phoenix before impact.

comiso90 · 10-23-2008, 12:10 AM

>>it should be able to outmaneuver the Mach 6 Phoenix before impact.<<

For me that s the crux of the matter... an F-14 with 4 phoenix missiles is pretty damn menacing but the Phoenix is large and old school. Could the F-15 out maneuver a phoenix?

"Should" is not an answer.. what do the sims say?

.

Matt308 · 10-23-2008, 12:28 AM

The Phoenix is not a fighter-v-fighter weapon. It was designed to intercept slow and non-manueverable Soviet Bombers. While it does have a high max speed, that speed is NOT maintained during its continous flight. The Phoenix employs a maintainer motor once it reaches max-E altitude. Any fighter that detects the incoming missile has a high probability of outmaneuvering the Phoenix, since it was not designed to be a dogfighting missile.

Couple this with early problems Hughes encountered in mission readiness, the standdown of Soviet bombers and there is a reason that F-14Ds were not often seen loaded up with 6 Phoenix missiles as a typical loadout.

comiso90 · 10-23-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt308

I'll pass.

A wise man once said that he would pass.

Did you say something Matt??? Or are you contributing??

SoD Stitch · 10-23-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt308

The Phoenix is not a fighter-v-fighter weapon. It was designed to intercept slow and non-manueverable Soviet Bombers. While it does have a high max speed, that speed is NOT maintained during its continous flight. The Phoenix employs a maintainer motor once it reaches max-E altitude. Any fighter that detects the incoming missile has a high probability of outmaneuvering the Phoenix, since it was not designed to be a dogfighting missile.

Couple this with early problems Hughes encountered in mission readiness, the standdown of Soviet bombers and there is a reason that F-14Ds were not often seen loaded up with 6 Phoenix missiles as a typical loadout.

Well said, Matt (as usual); in fact, the typical loadout for a late-model F-14 (B's & D's) was four AIM-7F Sparrows and/or AMRAAM's on the fuselage stations, and four AIM-9M's on the glove pylons. The Phoenix was actually pretty useless for fighter-v-fighter combat, especially under current ROE.

And even during the height of the Cold War, a 6-Phoenix loadout was very rare; the A's typically carried four AIM-54's on the fuselage pallets, and Sparrows & Sidewinders on the glove pylons.

comiso90 · 10-23-2008, 01:43 AM

Therefor the thread is valid...

kool kitty89 · 10-23-2008, 02:33 AM

Did the F-14D incorporate a fly-by-wire system?

And when was FBW introduced on the F-15?

How do the control systems compare to those of the F-16?

Soren · 10-23-2008, 07:29 AM

How about we take a look at the thrust to weight and aerodynamic properties of the a/c.

The key point is that you imagine a match up, the a/c facing each other in combat.

FLYBOYJ · 10-23-2008, 07:34 AM

The problem is all 3 aircraft have varying roles and if flown properly should never see each other in close quarters.

F-15 for me.

Soren · 10-23-2008, 08:10 AM

Well in war different type a/c meet each other all the time, regardless if their flown properly or not

Let me create a scenario:

Two bombers escorted by two F-15's are about to be intercepted by two F-14's fitted with 6x sidewinders and 2x Phoenix missiles.

At 80km away the Tomcats lock on to the bombers and fire off their two Phoenix missiles at them. The F-15's, armed with 8x AIM-7 Sparrow missiles peel off to intercept the Tomcats. The Bombers try to avoid the Phoenix missiles by the help of ECM.

The F-14's & F-15's get within 20km, a wild dogfight is soon to follow, who wins ? Or should I say who have the odds with or against them ?

Soren · 10-23-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt308

Wow. Rather a silly discussion isn't it? Without some operational context, mission need and order of battle this quickly will blur into a debate about "top speed", "range" and "best load-out".

I'll pass.

You're right, and so I added the scenario for ou guys to think about.

FLYBOYJ · 10-23-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soren

The F-14's & F-15's get within 20km, a wild dogfight is soon to follow, who wins ? Or should I say who have the odds with or against them ?

Providing that the F-14s didn't get splashed first by the Sparrows, I'd go with the F-15s, but this will depend on who got their missiles off first and who had the better ECMs to counter the missiles. I do know in exercises conducted between the USAF and the USN the F-15s did come out on top most of the time in simulated combat scenarios. If I remember correctly in 1998 USAF F-15s shot down F-14s 3 to 1 during RIMPAC.