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11-07-2006, 10:58 AM
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#46 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: nr middlesbrough uk
Posts: 414
Country:  | i voted fw 190 dora but also love the f 4u | 
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11-07-2006, 03:14 PM
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#47 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 8,949
Country:  | I'll stick with my posts. More versatility in P-51 and P-38.
Erich, I'm surprised about your comment on the Ta-152. With such a large wing aspect ratio, you are saying that it was a superior low/mid dogfighter? That would prove to be very counterintuitive for me.
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11-07-2006, 03:33 PM
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#48 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,665
Country: | proof was Matt that it took down Soviet and RAF fighters from mid range, the Ta 152H was never flown at it's peak altitude. As JG 301 was providing constant Wehrmacht ground enforcement even the Doras of II./JG 301 were committed to fighter bomber missions in the Spring of 45 along with the Fw 190A-8/A-9's. Stab of JG 301 with the Tank was providing high air coverage but they were not flying at anything above 20,000 feet but at much lower alt.'s
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11-07-2006, 03:44 PM
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#49 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 8,949
Country: | Midrange I can fathom. It is the lower flight regime where I would think that any airplane with such a high wing aspect ratio would suffer maneuverabilty. Were there quite a few kills in the midrange? Against what kinds of airplanes?
I'm not knocking the 152, just am fascinated that an aircraft specifically developed for high altitude operations, is being touted as superior fighter in all flight regimes. Seems contrary to my understanding.
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11-07-2006, 03:47 PM
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#50 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,665
Country: | Jak's, Migs, Tempests and a kill against a P-51D and a P-47, but I am thinking off the top of my head right now. The TA 152H-0 and H-1 kills have not all been recorded, much of the spring 45 kills were not recorded as nobody cared, it being one of the last Reich defense units and operating against both sides of the conflict, JG 301 as a whole left so many bases to be flittered away in stupid ground bombings and strafings
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11-07-2006, 08:58 PM
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#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Great Southern Land
Posts: 420
Country:  | They were all great fighters in their own right, but I chose the Hawker Tempest as my personal favourite in the European theatre of war. It was hard to choose between the Tempest, the P-47 and the Bf-109. For the Pacific side of things, definetly the Kyushi Shindin
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11-08-2006, 10:26 AM
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#52 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 8,949
Country: | I didn't think the Shiden ever saw action. It was plagued by engine trouble from the start, right? Specifically overheating? And didn't the primary flight test pilot die during an early test?
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11-08-2006, 10:26 AM
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#53 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,578
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt308  I'll stick with my posts. More versatility in P-51 and P-38. | Not trying to argue here with you and I agree that the P-38 is a very versatile aircraft but how is the P-51D more versatile than the Fw-190, Tempest, P-47, Corsair, etc...
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-08-2006, 10:29 AM
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#54 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 8,949
Country: | Oh, never mind.  I agree with you. Powerful, fast and 4 30mm cannon. What's not to like.
I was thinking of the forward canard airplane with rear mounted engine. Can't recall designation off the top of my head.
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11-08-2006, 10:38 AM
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#55 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 8,949
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Not trying to argue here with you and I agree that the P-38 is a very versatile aircraft but how is the P-51D more versatile than the Fw-190, Tempest, P-47, Corsair, etc... | Perhaps not. I view these threads as more of a popularity contest than one that is likely to draw any meaningful technical conclusion. Your question is not an argument, but rather what makes these threads fun. In the hands of a skilled pilot any of these fantastic aircraft were beyond the pale.
My vote for the P-51D is based upon its operational capability, flexibility, maintainability (a VERY important consideration) and design simplicity. The latter cannot be readily said for the P-38 however. The engine platform was not unique to this aircraft, the armament consisted of a single weapon, and the maintenance cadre were well trained. The flight characteristics were forgiving, allowing for relatively untrained pilots to master basic aerial fighting skills, and its range was phenomonal.
Perhaps not all unique to P-51D, but convincing in their own right. 
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11-08-2006, 10:45 AM
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#56 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,578
Country: | Okay because I understand versatility differently as in what kind of roles it can perform in. The P-51 could not perform in as many as I stated.
I just look at this way, you take away the range and the P-51 is no better than the Spitfire, Bf-109 and Fw-190 and probably not as good as the Spit and Fw-190.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-08-2006, 10:54 AM
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#57 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 8,949
Country: |
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11-08-2006, 10:42 PM
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#58 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mineral wells texas
Posts: 42
|  My Favorite Fighter- Interceptor P38 lighting
Ain't she just cool too look , i mean if you knew nothen about aircraft and walk about and found one of these you wold have to say she is a predator with only on job in life 
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11-08-2006, 10:46 PM
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#59 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 8,949
Country: | You got that right. Every other designer said lets put two engines on the wings outside a common fuselage so she will go faster. Kelly Johnson put that on its ear.
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11-09-2006, 06:31 AM
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#60 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stafford Springs, Connecticut
Posts: 397
Country: |
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ I saw that show, very cool and accurate.
It was correct in saying that the F-86F was faster and at certain altitudes could out maneuver the Mig-15. The Mig-15 was still lighter and could out accelerate the Saber but eventually the Saber could close in, especially at higher mach numbers. | Cool. | |
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