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Favorite fighter/interceptor?

Polls Discuss Favorite fighter/interceptor? in the World War II - Aviation forums; Originally Posted by chuckn49 Drgondog, again your superior knowledge has me at a distinct disadvantage. After all, I was just ...


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View Poll Results: Which Fighter/Interceptor is Your Favorite???
Fw 190D-9 23 10.50%
Fw 190A-8 5 2.28%
Spitfire Mk IX 12 5.48%
Spitfire Mk XXI 9 4.11%
Spitfire Mk XIV 15 6.85%
La-7 3 1.37%
F4U Corsair 17 7.76%
P-38 Lightning 22 10.05%
Ta 152H 35 15.98%
Me 262A 19 8.68%
Bf 109G 7 3.20%
N1K2-J Shiden-Kai 5 2.28%
Fiat G.55 8 3.65%
P-51D Mustang 11 5.02%
Hawker Tempest 13 5.94%
P-47 Thunderbolt 15 6.85%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-27-2008, 12:42 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by chuckn49 View Post
Drgondog, again your superior knowledge has me at a distinct disadvantage. After all, I was just a dumb pilot and all the mechanics would start my day by telling me: "I told Orville and I told Wilbur and I'm telling you; it'll never get off the ground." Well, they were wrong. Getting it off the ground wasn't the hard part: keeping it off the ground was.

Anyway, I didn't realize the G model's rotor system was from the J model. It must have been a retro-fit because I'm pretty sure the models I flew had rotor systems originally from the C model Huey which I also flew (much harder to fly than the Cobra due to weight problems -- the aircraft's, not mine .
As you say, though, we're both trying to remember 40 years ago (I wish you hadn't reminded me of how much time has gone by ).

Chuck I know the Cobra G rotor was both thicker in chord and greater span than the C. Whether it was a J rotor - I honestly cannot remeber for sure.

That J model must have been some bird with those twin engines, etc. We thought the G model was pretty hot stuff and, compared to the C model it replaced it really was. A loaded C model was almost impossible to autorotate -- it would just fall through the flare and break backs.

Auto rotate is one of those interesting 'concepts' which occasionally works in real life. Every time I see a movie in which a helo loses a tail rotor I cringe

I flew H models and I flew Rangers but, I don't remember the vibration system you mentioned. Here again, it has been 40 years. I do know I suffered high frequency hearing loss in my right ear as a result of that darn turbine whine, though.
I lost all of my high frequency hearing (both ears) due to recip engines and shooting over 45+ years. I shot both hand thrown and box flyers for a long time and din't wear ear protection in the case of Box birds because I wanted to hear and see when the bird was released... and I never use them for any kind of hunting these days as there ain't much to protect..

As to the nodal platform - I don't know whether it was used on military birds. I went out of airframe biz in 1973.
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:30 PM   #197
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I lost all of my high frequency hearing (both ears) due to recip engines and shooting over 45+ years.
My high freq hearing is terrible as well and that is just from flying Blackhawks for 6 years, so I can imagine how your hearing is after 45+!
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:27 PM   #198
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My high freq hearing is terrible as well and that is just from flying Blackhawks for 6 years, so I can imagine how your hearing is after 45+!
The real long term damage is shooting Chris. most of the hours in a recip were with earphones of sometype - whereas I have careless guys in a duck blind or hunting quail let one loose close to an ear... a lot of times.

I don't imagine that the Blackhawk or a CH 53 would be much less punishing. At least I haven't spent a lot of time next to an amplifier for a head banger group..
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:42 PM   #199
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I'm sure many of us have suffered some hearing damage, I myself have been very careful to look out for my hearing, but walking around with ear plugs just isn't an option always and my hearing isn't as good as it used to be.
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We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:55 PM   #200
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What hearing? I would feel lost without my friend the little bell ringing all the time. The only advantage is that I cannot hear crickets.
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Old 02-28-2008, 02:12 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by drgondog View Post
The real long term damage is shooting Chris. most of the hours in a recip were with earphones of sometype - whereas I have careless guys in a duck blind or hunting quail let one loose close to an ear... a lot of times.

I don't imagine that the Blackhawk or a CH 53 would be much less punishing. At least I haven't spent a lot of time next to an amplifier for a head banger group..
Thats true. Whenever I would go shooting I allways had ear plugs. I think that most of my hearing loss comes from working on the flightline and flying but I am sure that all those Metallica concerts have not helped...
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fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

"wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2"

"ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life"
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:05 PM   #202
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Soren those figures on the Fw-190A-9 don't seem totaly right. (the first chart moreso than the second) It says the BMW 801-F was used and I've read that this was the planned engine (with 2000 hp take-off and 2,400 hp special emergency power) but it was not yet available so the 801-E/S was used instead with 2000 hp takeoff (and 2,200-2,300 hp when special emergency power was available, though I'm not sure if all of these engines could do this)

The A-8 also should have used the same wider chord propeller of the D-9 (which was more efficient for these power ratings). This propeller, along with the increased power, (and only modest increase in weight) should have raised climb rate to at least that of the D-9, certainly if the same armament was carried. (and better than the D-9 w/out MW50) Though it would be slower than the D-9 with MW50 due to the higher drag of the radial engine and the wing and belly racks.

I do agree that the D-9 should turn better though, but some pre A-8 models may have had a (slightly) smaller radius (and about the same as the A-, while the turn-time for the D-9 would be ~10% better due to better sustained speed in turns. As for roll, I'd expect it to be the same. (though late 190's did have better high-speed roll than early models iirc)


davparlr,
I think the Fw-190A-8 would be a good interceptor to add to that list, as its climb should be similar to the D-9 (at least down low) but could carry 4x 20mm cannon and 2x 13mm nose guns. (though the outer wing 20mm's were often removed)

You also didn't list the Tempest Mk.V

It should also be noted that many of the planes up there could have carried better interceptor gun armaments. (though I've never heard of any operational Me 109s carrying 2x 15mm cannons) The P-51 could (and did) carry 4x 20mm cannons without trouble. The spitfire tried 4x 20mm but this was unsatisfactory. The P-47 couldcertainly cary 4x 20mm abd maby even 6x 20mm guns. The P-38 could likely carry 4x 20mm guns.

Also you didn't consider rocket armaments. The P-38L, for example, could carry 10x 5" HVAR, or 4x rocket launchers each carrying a cluster of 3x 4.5" rockets. The 4.5" rockets were intended for ground attack but could be used as an interception weapon in a pinch. And don't forget the R4M!

I don't think the Me 262 could have ended daylight bombing on its own (maby by psycological affect) even if there weren't engine problems there were plenty of problems with production and development (plus there's training conversion time) to be fielded before mid 1944. The He 280 could have served as an intrim measure and could have been feilded as early as mid 1943 if the wings had been redesignd to accept HeS-6 engines. (the HeS 6 was the only engine with enough thrust that could have been mass produced by 1942, it was an inferior engine of greater weight and diameter than the HeS-8 and would have given lower performance, but it ran in 1940 and produced 550-590 kp, wich the HeS-8 wasn't making untill late 1941 and even then with much other trouble, plus it was still narrower than Whittle's engines)

That said there was an even more effective weapon that was simple, cheap, realitively low-tech, and could easily have been feilded by 1942 if work on (or intrest in) such a device had started sooner. The R4M rocket: simple cheap, easy to build, and very effective. (without the need for a proximity fuse, though one would certainly increase effectiveness, but a simple time fuse was sufficient, just set to detonate at the desired range) It also had the great advantage of having the same trajectory as the Mk 108, so they could be sited the same. Fw 190s could easily have carried these weapons as could the He 280 have. This truely could have stopped daylight bombing before the LW was outnumbered.



chuckn49,

While I mean no disrespect to your brother, diving was one thing the P-38 could not do well, it could not maintain controll in excess of .68 Mach, and even then it needed the dive flaps to remain stable. The P-51 could safely dive to .75 mach (pilots often pushed farther), while the late P-47D could do mach .80 (more with dive flaps) and accelerated much faster than either the 51 or the 38. And the P-47D,M,N and the F4U-4 could out roll the P-38 at all but very high speeds (nearing the P-38's limit) and even then it might not have beaten the P-47N. The P-38L could out-roll a P-51 at evry speed and could out turn most other US fighters (probably not the Hellcat and maybe not the Corsair) especially if independent throttles were coordinated for turns. And it had longer range than any of the others (similar to the P-47N) and had a better chance of getting home and more concentrated firepower than the P-51. The P-38J/L could also out-climb any US or axis a/c that saw servise in the war. The P-38 could aso out maneuver any other USAAF fighter down low, plus there's no diving issue below 15,000 ft. (except maybe for the P-40, but the P-38 has so many other advantages, even down low)

The P-47 was more comfortable to fly in with a large padded "armchair" seat and good heating and (I've read) air conditioning. The P-47 had better high-speed control and stability than almost any other WWII fighter and could out zoom climb almost anything.



The P-51A (the higest performing Allison Mustang) had the V-1710-81 engine with takeoff 1,200 hp, WEP 1,480 hp from 5,000-10,400 ft, and military power of 1,125 hp up to 17,500 ft. (this engine was also used on the P-40M/N and out performed the 1,300 hp Merlin engined P-40F/L at all useful altitudes)

When introduced the P-51A could outperform any other allied fighter (and maby the Fw 190) at medium altitudes. With 394 mph at 5,000 ft in WEP, 415 mph at 10,400 ft, 408 mph at 17,500 ft at millitary, and a decent 395 mph at 25,100 ft with only 836 hp. Though the Spit could out climb it. It could climb to 20,000 ft in ~6.5 min. at 8,000 lbs. (compared to ~7.3 min for the P-40M)

See: Mustang (Allison Engine) Performance Trials and http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...51a-1-6007.jpg

Last edited by kool kitty89 : 02-29-2008 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:00 PM   #203
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No disrespect taken -- I know my brother would not have disagreed with you on any of what you say. The story of the P-38 student pilot diving the P-38 beyond its envelop was one of an aeronautical engineer believing it could be done and be recoverable when some pilots of the day who exceeded that envelop died. I remember him distinctly telling me of getting into a dive and encountering the control problems you allude to himself. I believe what he experienced was a great deal of difficulty getting the elevators to be effective. I know it scared him.

Anyway, until the day he died, his favorite fighter, overall, was the P-38. He said he felt safer in it, felt it could hold its own against any enemy plane likely to be encountered and was likely to bring its pilots home. This dispite its well documented shortcomings in the ETO.

When he shot down the ME-262 with Zemke, though, he was flying the P-51. He liked the P-51 well enough. Still, he liked the concentrated fire power of the P-38 better because of the 20 mm and 50 cals all being in the nose.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:38 PM   #204
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Dav, I roger that ringing noise. When I was in basic training with the Garand the only hearing protection was cotton and when one was in the "coach" position your right ear was only two or three feet from the muzzle blast. Years of bird hunting with some big game hunting thrown in with no ear protection added to the problem but the worst offender for noise as far as I am concerned is the magnum handgun. The first 15 or 20 rounds I ever fired from a 41 mag was with no ear protection and that did it. The good news is the only time I hear the ringing is when I think about it.
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:27 PM   #205
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Mine is the Corsair. I just love the way that plane looks. And it was a handful in the pacific.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:30 PM   #206
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My favourite fighter is P-40, from those I choose P-47 - huge killer.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:45 PM   #207
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I don't think that the la-7 was a intereptore, But it was a killer low level dog fighter. I like the fiat g55 the best but the ta 153 or fw 190d were superior.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:01 PM   #208
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You mean the Ta 152 (not 153) right?
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:09 PM   #209
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I don't think that the la-7 was a intereptore, But it was a killer low level dog fighter. I like the fiat g55 the best but the ta 153 or fw 190d were superior.
You mean Ta 152 right?
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Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes:

fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

"wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2"

"ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life"
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Old 09-18-2008, 07:08 AM   #210
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Thats true. Whenever I would go shooting I allways had ear plugs. I think that most of my hearing loss comes from working on the flightline and flying but I am sure that all those Metallica concerts have not helped...
Yup... same problem, same reason(s).

Resulting in 2, count 'em TWO, VA provided hearing aids.

As for this thread, it's so difficult to decide which fighter/interceptor of that era... on the American side each of the ones listed had such different strengths.

I'm having all I can do to surpass the Warthog, at the moment.

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