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Fw-190

Polls Discuss Fw-190 in the World War II - Aviation forums; how's your German ? IV./JG 3 by Dr. Jochen Prien, Struve Druck Verlag, Eutin, Germany. This book maybe on ...


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View Poll Results: Should Germany's main frontline fighter have been the Fw-190?
Yes 96 76.19%
No 30 23.81%
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:33 PM   #76
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how's your German ?

IV./JG 3 by Dr. Jochen Prien, Struve Druck Verlag, Eutin, Germany. This book maybe on the waiting list to be published in English through Schiffer Publications out of Pennsylvania.

Sturmjager volume 1 and 2 by Eric Mombeek. In German only and I think in French. Produced through Eagle Editions and not sure if it is still in publication.

To be released, JG 300, volume 1 March 2005 and second volume in lates pring 2005. In English by Jean Yves Lorant and Richard Goyat. Eagle Editions again.

our web-site which is still not back up to full proiduction rate yet till the last books are published.

JG 301/JG 302, Wilde Sau in German by Willi Reschke was in German and now released through Schiffer ? in Englsih fairly recently. although not fully covering SturmFw actions it does take intoa cct. the unit flying full on heavy Fw actions with lighter Fw's as high cover from November 44 till January/February of 45.
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:57 PM   #77
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My German is non existant.. I need english or decntly translated material....

Thank you for the listing...
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:59 PM   #78
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Kopf hoch !

you're welcome and gute Jagd
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:01 PM   #79
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Wise ass......
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:02 PM   #80
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Erich,

Do you have any solid data on the number of A8-R2 variants?

For a while I was in contact with another person writing a book on them, and he indicated that he thought they made up at best perhaps 10-15% of the total number of A8's. Are your numbers different?

As I understand it, MK108's were in high demeand and MK108 ammo was in relatively short supply.

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Old 01-08-2005, 09:05 AM   #81
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The SturmFw's, both R2's and R8's were made at Fieseler/Kassel werke's

the numbers were 680101 to 683340 although it appears that some of the 682designations were for the A-9/R2

the numbers i have do not give exacts for the R2 or R8 but are all put together,

Developed and sent from the factory in February of 1944 till January of 45 with a total of 1350 units divided up between the Sturmstaffel 1, JG 1 and JG 11, then the three Sturmgruppen of JG 3, 4 and 300. Also units in JG 301.

Now for the A-8 in general I have once heard some 6,000 units plus completed. anyone have the stats on that as I do not have all the werk nummerations by a long shot............

ok lets get totally confused now ....

The first so-called SturmFw's were in Sturmstaffel 1 and they were armored knights having four 2cm weapons and possibly cowling mg's but not always. These were A-6's with the designation R2 but the R2 was not always listed officially. Later in the winter of 44 some A-7's came into the staffel due to huge casualties. The introduction of the Mk 3cm 108 cannon in the A-7 led to the term A-7/MK but leter that was removed and the R2 designation was retained. The unit's machines were not always armored in the Sturmstaffel 1 as well as JG 1 and JG 11. The two latter units also had the predominance of A-8's as standard.
In June of 44 the Sturm Fw was given A-8/R2 some with mg's and some without; some without had the cowling fairings aerodynamically placed to restrict the bad flying characteristics of the ehavy bird. These were used in all three heavy units until November/December 1944 when the A-8R8 becmae the Standard Sturm Fw machine. This had all the heavy armor as well as mg's removed and teh aerodynamic farings on the engine cowling. there were no more field modifications, as these came straight from the factory, two 2cm inboard and two 3cm outboard. The true standard for the Sturmbocke.
During the fall of 1944 JG 301 also had SturmFw like machines, usually not armored although the aobve pic of white 21 says otherwise. The A-8/R2 had mg's or sometimes not but always the 2cm and 3cm weapons. The heavy units were also broken up amongst the Staffels of III. gruppe but again we find them in dribs and drabs in the other two gruppe's; the first and second. later IV. gruppe would arrive for a short spell but it operated the Bf 109G-10.
As the A-8 was being slwly fazed out the A-9 came into full on production with some having the heavy outboard 3m's. This was the A-9/R2 serving in JG 3, JG 300 and JG 301. 12 bladed fan and many the wooden prop for more power. Also the drop tank had changed in style and the Bubble top like canopy of the dora model was placed on the A-9 in many cases. From a distance though the A-8 and A-9 looked alike.

I have also heard the cheaply made Mk 108 3cm was in short supply along with the ammo. It was used also for the Bf 110G-4 Night fighter as well as SturmFw's and the Me 262 so yes many hands wanted the unit for their a/c . with the case of further acceptance of the Me 262 I beleive that they had priority of the weapon although new marks of Bf110G-4's were coming out with the Neptun FuG 217 radar and the forward armament was two 3cm weapons and two 2cm weapons in the lower nose.
SturmFw's were losing most of their armor and the outboard 3cm's being replaced by 2cm weapons although some armored knights stayed with JG 3. JG 3 and JG 4 staying on the Ost front from mid January till war's end while JG 300 stayed in the interior Reich flying the heavy Sturm fighter.....

I need Kaffe bitte ....... hope this all makes sense

Erich
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:04 PM   #82
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Yes it makes sense, but it still doesn't answer the question; what proprotion of the A8's were A-8/R2's?

I used to be in contact with a guy writing a book on the FW. I'll need to try to get back in touch with him (it's been 2 years). He gave me the complete deployment info for JG1 up through the end of 1944, which are as follows: (I have specific delivery, loss, and strength info by month as well)

Type_____________Total
Fw 190A-2 ................86
Fw 190A-3 ................49
Fw 190A-4 ................151
Fw 190A-4/R1 ...........3
Fw 190A-5 ................66
Fw 190A-6 ................128
Fw 190A-7 ................185
Fw 190A-8 ................440
Fw 190A-9 ................14
Grand Total...............1122

This implies that either JG1 got the lion's share of the FW190A-8's or that there were in fact more A-8's produced than the 1334 generally reported. He claimed that while it was the desire of the units to have more 30mm armed planes, that in fact the numbers were rather small and most were armed with 4 x MG151/20's + 2 x MG131's (sometimes ommited).

Again, the A-6 variant with outboard guns removed was by far the best dogfighting version of the FW190A. Later versions became too heavy for effective dogfighting.

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Old 01-08-2005, 04:09 PM   #83
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Lune there were some 6700 Fw 190A-8's from the factories // amounts of 1350 were A-8/R2's and R8's.

My listing which I found is of the werke nummern and the factories. There are not specific dates except for the first and last machines delivered by month by those very nummern of 680 to the 683***.
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:10 PM   #84
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Again, the A-6 variant with outboard guns removed was by far the best dogfighting version of the FW190A. Later versions became too heavy for effective dogfighting.
That is definatly true.... But...If u removed the armor protection as well as the outboard cannon on the A-8, it also was quite the dogfighter...
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:17 PM   #85
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Personally the A-9 without the outboard guns is probably equal to the A-6 and also with a more powerful engine. Again I mentioned it was a personal preference by some I. and II./JG 301 pilots and it spread to other units as well such as JG 4. When Reich defence units flew on the Ost front they of course were told to defend Berlin and the area at all costs. This meant besides looking for Soviet a/c to engage, the terrible wrok of ground attack with single bombs, so the outboard cannons were then removed. It became standard even when encountering the Yak and Mig and Lav. fighters to only have cowling mg's and inboard 2cm's.
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:24 PM   #86
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Yes I have read that before.. less weight = better flight performance.....

ANyone know how much those 2cm and 30mm weaps weighed, with ammo????
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:33 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Erich
Lune there were some 6700 Fw 190A-8's from the factories // amounts of 1350 were A-8/R2's and R8's.

My listing which I found is of the werke nummern and the factories. There are not specific dates except for the first and last machines delivered by month by those very nummern of 680 to the 683***.
You cannot go just by the werknumber sequencings. It has been shown repeatedly that there were often significant gaps within a block.

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Old 01-08-2005, 04:51 PM   #88
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You cannot go just by the werknumber sequencings. It has been shown repeatedly that there were often significant gaps within a block.
I have heard this also.....
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Old 01-08-2005, 05:04 PM   #89
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I also realize that, one mention of 682*** as some of the A-9/R2's in the above postings. But I have a listing of the werke nummern complete with the amounts in numbers. 1350 Sturmlike machines. this would include A-8 and A-9 sorry I cannot break that up any smaller, but it is confirmed from two German sources, one from German author Peter Rodeike in his fantastic Fw 190/Ta 152 book
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Old 01-08-2005, 05:54 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Erich
I also realize that, one mention of 682*** as some of the A-9/R2's in the above postings. But I have a listing of the werke nummern complete with the amounts in numbers. 1350 Sturmlike machines. this would include A-8 and A-9 sorry I cannot break that up any smaller, but it is confirmed from two German sources, one from German author Peter Rodeike in his fantastic Fw 190/Ta 152 book
Typically each Block is only a few hundred planes. Typically, some block sections are skipped entirely. 1334 FW190A-8's of all types is the generally accepted number. While I agree there were probably more than this, I'd really like to see some kind of solid info about there having been 6700, which is a huge huge discrepancy.

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