The Greatest Fighter Pilot in WW II???

[lesofprimus]

Well, I read all 7 pages.. That was a great read thank you... He sounds like a great guy...

But it still doesnt prove anyting to me about him being the greatest of all time... He let a wounded -17 fly home... Something he would have been court martialed for, or even shot...

Pity is NOT a virtue that should be nutured or promoted to fighter pilots....

[GermansRGeniuses]

Still, while not THE best pilot, he was a great pilot.

Those kills were against Western allies, not the Soviets...

[lesofprimus]

Being able to fly just about any plane in the German Luftwaffe DEFINATLY labels him as a great pilot....

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but they didn't have a huge variety of different types..................

[lesofprimus]

Did u read that interview??? This guy musta flown 100 different aircraft, if not more, including alot of captured aircraft....

[the lancaster kicks ass]

damn, i didn't read the interview..............

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, thanks les, that's the sorta guy I mean....another comes to mind...[can't find the book, the missus has moved them] but Johannes Steinhoff was Commander of JG77, ended-up flying Me-262's with Galland, took over from him for awhile when he was wounded, but survived the War with a reasonable score....I suppose it's important too that they did survive, 'greatest' applies more when they can live to write and talk about it, as Erich can probably testify to, with researching and writing a book on these topics....I'm trying a similar thing, [although abit late really, they're all so old now, these chaps], but with Aviation Art, creating paintings of historic events from their experiences....

[Lightning Guy]

I think surviving can be overplayed in a discussion of the greatest pilot. A lot of great pilots were killed in accidents, by ground-fire, or by other things that can best be attributed to chance. Marseille was killed when he was knocked unconsious while attemping to bail out of his fighter. I hardly think this freak accident degrades his status as a pilot.

[lesofprimus]

I agree with u there LG...

Another example is an experienced pilot flying a -262, gets shot down while trying to land that beast, by a green rook with 19 combat missions and 2 kills....

[Gemhorse]

Hmmm, yeah, fair comment guys...but then there were pilots like Capt. Eric Brown who was a Fleet Air Arm pilot who had a small score, but his contribution was huge in flight-testing ALL types of aircraft, of all nations...

[Lightning Guy]

Dan Roberts (one of the leading aces in the Pacific at the time of his death) was killed when his wingman was too slow reacting to a turn Roberts was attempting to stay with a target. The two aircraft collided and both were killed. I guess you could argue that Roberts died because he was TOO good.

[lesofprimus]

Or his wingman was a meatball moron....

One ting to point out on this topic, is that when interviewed, just about every Japanese ace commented on how Hiroyoshi Nishizawa could fly his aircraft...
Many were stunned at his abilities and skill....
He would put on aerial acrobatics shows that would boggle the minds of some of the Greatest pilots Japan had...

Pilots such as Saburo Sakai, Tetsuzo Iwamoto, Satoshi Anabuki, and Shoichi Sugita all claimed that Nishizawa was the greatest pilot the have ever seen.... That definatly means something....

[Lightning Guy]

Plenty of American aces said the same type of things about McGuire. They claim he could do things with a P-38 that were virtually impossible.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i would have been more impressed whaching a zero...................

[lesofprimus]

McGuire was a glory hound..... And if I'm not mistaken, when he died with his wingman, he was engaged in combat with none other than Shoigi Sugita himself... Ill check on that one....

McGuire's hope of forty victories was never realized.... Attacking a Zeke at tree-top altitude over Negros Island on 7 Jan 1945, he entered a high speed stall and crashed into the jungle....

Of all the World War II aces, Thomas B. McGuire, Jr. stands out of the crowd for one reason: he openly lusted for the fame that would come with being a leading ace, and thereby the best pilot.... In the American and British air forces, there is a tradition of modesty regarding this goal....

No one will ever accuse a man like Chuck Yeager of lack of ego, but it is kept in public check behind an "aw shucks, I was just doin' the job" attitude.... McGuire's lust for fame and glory would make him America's Number Two ace of all time, with 38 victories behind the 40 of his great rival, Richard I. Bong, but it would also insure he could never become Number One.... Perhaps this is the poetic justice of the universe at work...

McGuire made up for that as soon as he could climb into "Pudgy V." By 13 Dec 1944, his score was 31.... That was the week Bong scored his 40th and was removed from operations by General Kenney to go home to the U.S.A. and be awarded the Medal of Honor... On Christmas Day, McGuire scored victories 37 and 38 - putting him only two behind Bong - and was grounded by General Kenney until Bong could get home and receive his hero's welcome... Military Politics at its finest...

Allowed back in the air on Jan 7, 1945, McGuire was out for blood... Leading a flight of 4, he spotted a lone "Zero" low over the jungle of Negros Island... He had always preached never to get low, slow and heavy with the P-38, but this time he didn't let go his drop tanks... He saw the "Zero" as an easy kill, and with it and one more he would tie Bong... He made the fatal decision to keep his tanks, make the bounce, and continue the hunt... Not the smartest thing to do....

Unfortunately for McGuire, the pilot he attacked was NAP 1/c Soichi Sugita, at that time the top-scoring surviving IJN ace with 80-odd kills scored over Rabaul, a master at the controls of a "Zero"... In the ensuing fight, Sugita managed to shoot down one of McGuire's wingmen, and severely damage the other two. He then went after McGuire... Low over the jungle, heavy with fuel, McGuire stalled out trying to get away from Sugita and crashed to his death, a pointed example of the dark side of the lust for fame and glory....

The USAAF couldn't admit the truth about the real nature of their Number Two ace.... The official account of McGuire's demise has his flight attacked by a lone Zero, which shot down his junior wingman and damaged the other two, who only escaped with their lives when McGuire came to their rescue and tangled with the "Zero", only to stall over the jungle and crash.... For this selfless act, "above and beyond the call of duty," McGuire was awarded a posthumous Medal of Honor.... McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey is named in his honor....

More Military Politics at its very best.....

Sugita was killed on 15 April 1945 by LCdr Robert "Doc" Weatherup of VF-46. Capt Genda ordered a scramble when enemy aircrafts were approaching Kanoya. However, they arrived sooner than expected, and he gave orders for the standby pilots to abord takeoff. However, Sugita and his wingman, Toyomi Miyazawa either ignored the abort order or didn't get it. Both jumped into their aircraft as Hellcats became strafing and rocket bombing the airfield. Sugita managed to take off, reached about 400 feet, and Weatherup circled and got on his tail. The George was hit and Sugita nosed over and exploded. Then Weatherup took care of Miyazawa.