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09-16-2004, 12:03 AM
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#166 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,512
| Not exactly true. McGuire was not attempting to avoid Sugita but was attempting to pull enough lead to shoot Sugita off of another P-38's tail when he went in. Interestingly, despite the incredibly low altitude, McGuire had managed to right his Lightning and was initiating a pull out when he ran out of room. I do not deny the man was an egomaniac, but he knew how to fly.
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09-16-2004, 11:11 PM
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#167 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 507
Country:  | Bong's the only one I know, so I voted for him. I've made his P-38J too.
__________________ I like traffic lights,
I like traffic lights,
I like traffic lights,
that is what I said....  | |
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09-17-2004, 08:23 AM
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#168 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,512
| Bong was a great pilot, but probably not the greatest (though I consider him my favorite). Interestingly, Col. Charles MacDonald, commander of the 475th FG (who had flown with both Bong and McGuire) said that Col. Neal Kirby was the best pilot he ran into during the war.
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09-17-2004, 09:24 AM
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#169 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,975
Country:  | Seeing how many believe the P-51D was the best plane and in order to supply as much info as I can, here is a listing of P-51 Aces and their totals.... Shown are victories ONLY in the Mustang...
23.83 George Preddy Jr.
21 John Voll
21 John Meyer
18.5 Glenn Eagleston
18.5 Leonard Carson
17.5 John England
17 Ray Wetmore
17 James Varnell Jr
16.5 Don Gentile
16.25 Clarence Anderson Jr
15.5 Richard Peterson
15.5 Don Beerbower
15.5 Samuel Brown
15 Bruce Carr
15 Jack Bradley
14.5 William Whisner
14 John Herbst
14 Edward McComas
14 Wallace Emmer
13.83 John Godfrey
13.83 Donald Bochkay
13 Ralph Hofer
13 Robert Stephens
13 James Brooks
13 Robert Curtis
13 Harry Parker
13 Clyde East
I think that there was some special circumstances concerning opinions of pilots....
A P-51 Pilot will undoubtably say that another P-51 pilot was the best pilot, just like a P-38 pilot would say that another P-38 pilot was the best...
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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09-17-2004, 11:24 AM
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#170 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,512
| MacDonald (a P-38 pilot) said Kirby (a P-47 pilot) was the best.
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09-17-2004, 12:14 PM
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#171 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,975
Country: | Hmmmm.... Interesting....
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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09-28-2004, 03:50 AM
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#172 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
| i just spent a half hour typing what i feel on this subject only to apparently have it lost after spending time logging in to this site and i am not going to do it all over again ... anyone interested in franz stigler can contact me at ram@gci-net.com ... thanks, ron | |
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09-28-2004, 06:59 AM
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#173 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,564
Country: | I heard that Bong flew like the plane was an extension of himself, but he flew very conservatively. He knew the limits of the airplane and rarely, if ever flew beyond them. McGuire was the antithesis of Bong. Bong was a quiet thinker. McGuire was a risk taker and pretty vocal. Kind of like a camparison of Captain Kirk and Captain Picard (Sorry, Star Trek reference).
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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09-28-2004, 07:34 AM
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#174 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country:  | Too right you apologise for the Star Trek reference. You should have used Erwin Rommel and Montgomery as a reference. Rommel being the risk taker.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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09-28-2004, 07:42 AM
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#175 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 82
| Surely any pilot is only called an Ace because of his kills.I dont know of any pilot who got medals for being a good pilot an not an ace. | |
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09-28-2004, 08:20 AM
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#176 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,512
| Try every bomber pilot ever decorated.
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09-28-2004, 05:45 PM
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#177 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,975
Country: | Bong routinely flew his aircraft beyond the stress limits of his aircraft... Several of his wingmen had to get replacement planes because the rivets were stretched and poppin out...
McGuire was a cocky sumbizitch... He was so full of himself, that when Charles Lindbergh was rooming in his tent, he used to order him around and make him fetch things for him... When he made Captain, he wouldnt allow anyone to call him Mac anymore, just Captain McGuire.... No one liked him personally, and the feeling was probably mutual....
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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09-28-2004, 08:34 PM
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#178 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,512
| That is partially true. As an individual, McGuire was not well liked. As a pilot he was admired and as a commander he was deeply appreciated.
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09-28-2004, 08:42 PM
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#179 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,043
| Hey D, didja know Rommel's son is still alive? | |
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09-28-2004, 10:49 PM
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#180 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
| Yeah, I've read that bit about McGuire and Lindbergh somewhere.....Speaking of P-51 pilots, what about Don Blakeslee, I read about him and I recall Bud Anderson had high praise for him too.....
- And yeah, Rommel's son is Manfred..... | |
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