The Greatest Fighter Pilot in WW II???

plan_D · 09-28-2004, 10:58 PM

No I didn't. I doubt Manfred Rommel has the ability of his father, armour and infantry tactics isn't genetic.

lesofprimus · 09-28-2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

As a pilot he was admired and as a commander he was deeply appreciated.

This is absolutly correct....

GermansRGeniuses · 09-28-2004, 11:27 PM

I doubt it too, D...

Just a fact to be stated, saw him on the History Channel today, earlier...

plan_D · 09-28-2004, 11:34 PM

I bet that was a good conversation starter, or chat up line. "HEy, hi, I'm Rommels son"

GermansRGeniuses · 09-28-2004, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

I bet that was a good conversation starter, or chat up line. "HEy, hi, I'm Rommels son"

Or he could be really cheesy and say something on the lines of "Hey, my dad was a general in the army, but what I want to command is YOU!"

:lol

plan_D · 09-28-2004, 11:44 PM

Hah! Brilliant. The main problem with that is, it'd work in Britain!!

Gemhorse · 09-28-2004, 11:53 PM

I have Rommel's book and after Hitler's goons offered him suicide or a trial for treason, as he was wrongfully accused of being in on the 'Valkyrie' plot attempt to kill Adolf, he chose to shoot himself, and Hitler gave him a Hero's funeral, which Rommel's wife Magda and son Manfred HAD to attend... [and pretend] that it was all kosher....Shame on Hitler, because Rommel may have made the Allies D-Day invasion real hard work, but they arrested him right before the Invasion.......

Lightning Guy · 09-28-2004, 11:56 PM

I believe Rommel's suicide was via cynide and not a gunshot.

plan_D · 09-28-2004, 11:56 PM

No they didn't. Rommel was present, and in charge during the invasion. Not on the 6th June because he was visiting his wife, as it was her 50th Birthday.

Rommel was completely wrong during the invasion anyway. He placed the armoured divisions right behind the Atlantic Wall. He should have used them as Motorised Reserve, then they would have reached any trouble spots much quicker. Guderian advised him to do this, but Rommel refused.
Rommel was a risk taker, and luckily for him his opponents in the desert were cautious. If they had been a bit more aggressive he would have been defeated many a time.

Lightning Guy · 09-29-2004, 12:00 AM

They weren't able to deploy the Panzers behind the Atlantic wall and they could only be moved on Hitler's expressed orders. Rommel knew full well the capabilities of Allied airpower and knew that the required movements of a reserve Panzer force would expose them to countless attack sorties and considerable losses before they even engaged the Allies. His reasoning was that it was better to have some tanks in the right place then all the tanks in the wrong place. I believe he was right.

plan_D · 09-29-2004, 12:06 AM

Wrong, the Panzers were ordered by the Atlantic Wall at Calais on Rommels orders. There was always the option before the invasion to move them back as a mobile reserve. He did not. Guderian tried his hardest to change Rommels mind but he wasn't having it. The flaw was Rommels and Rommels alone.

You believe he was right yet they failed. Rommel was too afraid of Allied Airpower and was never willing after 1943 to commit acts of brilliance that some would say he did in the desert. I'd advise you to read Panzer Battles by Maj. Gen. von Mellenthin. He was Chief of Staff to Rommel in the desert and reports of his actions during the Normany campaign.

Now the greatest generals of the Germany army were Guderian, Manstein and Balck.

Gemhorse · 09-29-2004, 12:10 AM

Aye, but he was still one of the most honourable soldiers to serve Germany, and he hated the Nazis.....

plan_D · 09-29-2004, 12:15 AM

That is very true "The Last Knight" as a title serves him well. He was an excellent General and adapted to armoured conflict well, the fear let him down after 1943.

His victories in the desert were quite lucky, and many a time a crisis occured but he was always cool and calm. Excellent perks of a General.

lesofprimus · 09-29-2004, 01:05 AM

You are wrong about the panzers dude....

The only high-command officer who responded correctly to the crisis at hand was Field Marshal Rundstedt, the old man who was there for window dressing and who was so scorned by Hitler and OKW. Two hours before the seaborne landings began, he ordered the two reserve panzer divisions available for counterattack in Normandy, the 12th SS Panzer and Panzer Lehr, to move immediately toward Caen. He did so on the basis of an intuitive judgment that the airborne landings were on such a large scale that they could not be a mere deception maneuver (as some of his staff argued) and would have to be reinforced from the sea. The only place such landings could come in lower Normandy were on the Calvados and Cotentin coasts. He wanted armor there to meet the attack.

Rundstedt's reasoning was sound, his action decisive, his orders clear. But the panzer divisions were not under his command. They were in OKW reserve. To save precious time, Rundstedt had first ordered them to move out, then requested OKW approval. OKW did not approve. At 0730 Jodi informed Rundstedt that the two divisions could not be committed until Hitler gave the order, and Hitler was still sleeping. Rundstedt had to countermand the move-out order. Hitler slept until noon.

The two panzer divisions spent the morning waiting. There was a heavy overcast; they could have moved out free from serious interference from Allied aircraft. It was 1600 when Hitler at last gave his approval. By then the clouds had broken up and Allied fighters and bombers ranged the skies over Normandy, smashing anything that moved. The panzers had to crawl into roadside woods and wait under cover for darkness before continuing their march to the sound of the guns.

Put that in ur pipe and smoke it....

plan_D · 09-29-2004, 01:13 AM

You are wrong. Field Marshal von Runstedt was the overall commander in the West. Field Marshal Rommel was the commander of the Atlantic wall, assigned to Runstedt. Rommel requested to Runstedt his ideas of keeping the Panzer divisions behind the wall, which Rundstedt approved. Both can be blamed for the fatal flaw.

What happened on the 6th June is not what is in question. The time before the 6th June is. The Panzer divisions were already in the wrong place by 6th June and any counter-attack would have been slow in materilising.

Col. Gen. Guderian chief of the OKH requested to both Commander of the West (von Runstedt) and Rommel to rethink their plan. They refused under the basis that Allied airpower would prevent any movement. Their fear prevented any kind of movement.
Had all the Panzer divisions been in mobile reserve some 20-50 miles behind the lines scattered along France and counter-attack would have been instant.

Rommel also left Panzer divisions in the South and South West of France expecting an attack on the Med coast. These would have been more useful up north.

Again, I advise you and LG to read Panzer Battles and Panzer Leader.