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09-29-2004, 01:21 AM
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#196 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country:  | You think you're so smart, obviously. Two Panzer divisions left waiting, do you know how many were in the West when D-Day occured?
There were 10 Panzer and Panzergrenider Divisions:
1st SS-Panzer
2nd-Panzer
116th-Panzer
12th SS-Panzer
21st-Panzer
Panzer-Lehr
17th SS-Panzergrenider
11th Panzer
2nd SS-Panzer
9th-Panzer
11th and 21st Panzer both elite-veteran units from the East.
And that's not including the 48 infantry divisions plus IX and X SS-Panzer divisions that were being brought in from the East.
Where were the 8 other Panzer divisions, I'll tell you. In the South of France and stuck behind the wall at Calais. Both removing the Panzers greatest strenght, mobility, by a fear of enemy airpower. If Guderian had been allowed to have his way, the Allies would have never made it off the beaches.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | 
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09-29-2004, 01:24 AM
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#197 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,190
Country:  | I'd rather read books on Aircraft and Aces of WW II than about armour... If i want info on tanks, i read on the internet...
The section I quoted above is from book... So I'm not wrong.... I think we may be talking about 2 different things.. LG and I are referring to the actions during the landings at Normandy, not before...
I agree with u tho, if the Panzers were set out along the obvious threat axis of a beach assault, and ordered to attack, it might have made somewhat of a difference...
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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09-29-2004, 01:27 AM
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#198 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | I was talking about the actions before 6th June. It was Rommels idea to 'hide' the Panzers behind the wall. Those two divisions left waiting, is true (obviously) but it does not count for the complete lack of counter-offensive which could have been done by 10 Panzer divisions.
Rommel was wrong but not everyone can be right all the time. Even Guderian made mistakes when commanding 2nd Panzer Army in Russia. He had a chance to admit his mistakes, unfortunately Rommel did not.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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09-29-2004, 01:30 AM
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#199 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,190
Country: | OK glad we cleard that up before we got too far.....
10 divisions would have been alot, and I mean ALOT of trouble for the Allies in Normandy... Could the Allies have broken through with Shermans and Airpower???
We'll never know....
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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09-29-2004, 08:44 AM
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#200 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | Not only were there 10 Panzer Divisions, but 48 Infantry Divisions too. On top of that the 11th and 21st Panzer Divisions were the elite of the Wehrmacht. On top of that the IX and X SS-Panzer Divisions were on their way.
Unfortunately (for Germany) the Commander in Chief of the West (von Rundstedt) and Rommel were both too afraid of the Allied aircraft. I don't think the Allies could not have broken through if the counter-offensive was straight away with the 10 Panzer Divisions. All the new equipment was going to these divisions too.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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09-29-2004, 10:41 AM
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#201 | | Hairy one of Old Judea
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Deepest Darkest NZ
Posts: 1,143
Country:  | I wonder how we got from the "Greatest Fighter pilot of WW2" to Rommel and tanks at the D-Day invasion. Perhaps this thread would be better split off? Or has it finished?
Kiwimac
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09-29-2004, 12:28 PM
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#202 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | i think it's just split into atleast 2 conversations..........
__________________ 
"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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09-29-2004, 07:46 PM
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#203 | | Hairy one of Old Judea
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Deepest Darkest NZ
Posts: 1,143
Country: | 
Kiwimac
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09-30-2004, 10:15 AM
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#204 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country:  | Thats the thing, as soon as the thread gets split off both topics die 
I havent actually voted in this poll yet, so ill go with Richard Bong. 
__________________  with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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09-30-2004, 11:40 PM
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#205 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,190
Country: | Can i ask u a question???
Who do u think flew against tougher opposistion...
Kozhedub vs. German Aces, or Bong vs. Japanese Studen... I mean Aces...
Which aircraft vs aircraft comparison is a greater disadvantage...
La-5 vs Bf-109G, or P-38J vs Ki 43 I Hayabusa (Oscar)...
One guy had 62 victories and flew to wars end, the other was sent home after 40...
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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10-01-2004, 12:28 PM
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#206 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | wow that post made no sence to me...............
__________________
"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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10-01-2004, 02:16 PM
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#207 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country: | Made sense to me cos it was directed at me I voted based on my favourite
__________________ with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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10-01-2004, 05:12 PM
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#208 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,190
Country: | Didnt answer a single question.....
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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10-02-2004, 05:53 AM
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#209 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country: | I answered my question as a generic answer; I know youre trying to prove a point.
__________________ with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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10-02-2004, 11:19 AM
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#210 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,190
Country: | I was trying to open a good topic for debate and discussion... Which Ace fought through the most adversity to be one of the Best alltime???
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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