The Greatest Fighter Pilot in WW II???

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

This is how they determined if a kill was valid, and again it is like everything Germans do, it has to be a long drawn out process. (I admit it is a downfall of our people):

As noted on the Luftwaffe Scoring and Awards System page, "victory claims" and "points" were two seperate issues. Whenever an Abschuss (Destruction) of an enemy aircraft was claimed a strict proceedure was followed before the claim was allowed.

Following the policy of "one pilot-one kill", the investigating authorities would determine if the claiming pilot was solely responsible for the destruction of the enemy plane. Every Abschuss had to be observed by a witness: either a ground observer or the encounter, the pilot's wingman, or a Staffelmate. Witnesses were necessary unless the victor's aircraft had been fitted with a gun-camera and the destruction of the plane or the vanquished pilot's bailout had been recorded on film, if the wreckage of the downed pilot or other crew crew member had been captured by German forces. In effect: No witness or tangible evidence - no victory.

Every Abschuss had to be confirmed by the Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe or Commander in Chief of the Air Force. Jagdwaffe pilots were at all times required to note their geographical position as well as the type and number of the aircraft in enemy formations engaged. Naturally, the victor was required to log the exact time of a kill, while he maneuvered for a tactical advantage over the remaining enemy aircraft! In addition, he had to observe other actions in the air in order to be able to witness victories by his Staffelmates. Upon landing, the claimant prepared his Abschuss report for review by the immediate supervisory officer, who either endorsed or rejected the claim. If endorsed, the pilot's report to the Geschwaderstab, or Wing Staff, which, in turn, filed its report and sent both to the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM), or Air Ministry. After checking all the papers that were submitted, the official confirmation was prepared and sent to the unit. This very long bureaucratic proceedure sometimes took as long as a year! During 1944, another authority was created: the Abschusskommission, which received all reports on crashed aircraft remains found by search units. This commission checked conflicting claims between antiaircraft batteries and fighter pilots, and awarded credit for the victory to one claimant or the other. This system ensured that no more credits would be awarded than wrecks found.

The German system of confirming aerial victories was very effective in keeping human errors and weknesses within limits. Despite this, the Oberkommando der Luftwaffe, or Luftwaffe High Command, considered the large victory totals during the early days of the Russian campaign as incredulous. On many occasions, they accused the Jagdgeschwader Kommodores of exaggerating the victory scores. In effect Goering was calling the frontline pilots liars. This was one of the grievances that brought about the Mutiny of the Fighters, or the Kommodores' Revolt Conference, in Berlin during January, 1945.

When a German fighter pilot scored a victory, he would call "Horrido" on the radio. This distinctive announcement of victory alerted his fellow pilots to watch for a crash or a flamer, as well as notify ground stations, which helped to confirm many victories.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well I think I will give up on finding the number of single engine fighters shot down by Erich Hartmann tonight. Maybe I can find it tomorrow.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Nope just found it go to http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/hartm/hartm1.htm
and you can read it there.
It says that "Erich Hartmann survived the war with 352 confirmed victories, a higher total than any other fighter pilot in history. These victories were attained on 1,404 combat sorties, resulting in 825 aerial combats. Of his 352 victories, 260 were achieved against fighters - and seven against U.S. Fifteenth Air Force Mustangs."

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Alright now I can go to bed now that I found it!

[cheddar cheese]

[lesofprimus]

Great post DerAdler...

[Karaya_1]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

He was decorated with the Germany's absolutely highest military honour - the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds.

Hi,
here I must correct you : the highest German Decoration was the KC with GOLDEN Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. It was awarded only once : to the highest decorated soldier of WW II : Oberst Hans-Ulrich Rudel, the Stuka-Ace ! 2530 sorties (all time world record), 519 tanks destroyed, 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 70 landing ships, 800+ motorized vessels, 150+ Flak- and Pak-Batteries, innumerable bridges, bunkers etc., 9 Air Victories (yes, with a Ju 87, maybe that makes him the greatest "fighter pilot"). He was shot down 30 times, wounded 5 times and he flew his last sorties six weeks after he had his right lower leg amputated....he also rescued 6 other Stuka crews by landing near their downed planes and taking them back home in his Stuka....on one occasion, he couldn't take off with his plane again, so he had to roll home on a road many kilometers.....so he also holds the record for rolling the longest distance with a plane....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes Rudel was great.

[cheddar cheese]

Rudel was a superb pilot.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

yeap

[cheddar cheese]

Does anyone know what the planes he shot down in the air are?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

nope not sure but I could do another search for it like I did for Hartmann

[cheddar cheese]

Would you? That'd be great

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Okay during my search which is not over I have found that he had 9 kills. 7 of them were fighters (still trying to find out which kind) and 2 of them were ground attack aircraft and they were Il-2 Sturmoviks.

[cheddar cheese]

Ah...fitting