The Greatest Fighter Pilot in WW II???

[Udet]

"The Axis often sent pilots into battle barely able to fly".

That is one more of the many myths created by the Allied propaganda.
First things first: Germany was not Japan.

Germany lacked fuel to sent its fighter units against the USAAF from the final weeks of 1944 until the very end of the war. The exceptions were perhaps the Ardennes offensive and Bodenplatte.

Perhaps the Japanese indeed sent guys who could hardyl fly, with the sole mission in mind of smashing themselves against US navy targets.

The Allies, in this case the USA, wants to make it seem that in the final days, both scenarios -Pacific and Europe- were nearly identical; that is totally unaccurate and has very little to do with what actually happened.

That in the last year and a half of the war the training programs of new German pilots got shortened is true, but to say the Luftwaffe sent guys who "could hardly fly" to achieve virtually nothing and just to get killed in mass is not true.

October 1944 saw the Luftwaffe fighter force shooting down some 400-450 enemy planes (RAF & USAAF, fighter and bombers)

On november 26th, 1944, German pilots destroyed in combat about 100-110 USAAF planes (fighters and bombers).

On December 17th, 1944, German fighters destroyed about 85 USAAF planes.

On december 23rd, 1944, the Luftwaffe shot down about 100 USAAF planes, both bombers and fighters.

By then fuel was already lacking, and getting it was a drama, and a good amount of it, was being stockpiled for Bodenplatte. So shooting down 100 USAAF planes in the last week of 1944 speaks of an air force certainly not comprised by pilots who can hardly fly.

If possible try to get any comparative numbers of the Pacific theather of operations: you will see that by Nov/Dec 1944 losses at the hands of Japanese fighters were very low.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is true. Toward the end of the war more and more Luftwaffe pilots had less and less training. Atleast combat training that is. That is why I find it hard to discredit pilots such as Hartmann and the other aces. Hartmann was just as inexperienced and was not a very good combat pilot at first. He was shot down on several occasions before getting his first combat kill. He was just downright a fighter pilot genius. His tactics sometimes got himself downed by the fragments of the enemy fighter he shot down however he was the finest fighter pilot ever to fly over the skies of Europe and Russia. I personally believe that the great aces of the Luftwaffe owe there large number of kills to the fact that they were just very talented pilots. Also a bit probably belongs to luck. Again not to take anything away from the Allied pilots, there were many great ones. One thing that discredits the theorie of the limited number of missions the allied pilots were allowed to fly is the fact that some Luftwaffe pilots would get just as many killls in one day as an allied pilot doing his 25 missions or whatever the ammount was that they had to fly.

[Der Mensch]

I say the best pilot was either Erich Hartmann, or Hans-Ulrich Rudel

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I can agree with Erich Hartmann he is my favorite too Hans Ulrich Rudel was not a Fighter Pilot. He flew Stuka dive bombers. Dont take me wrong I think he was the best tank buster of the war, and the most decorated German soldier. Yes he did manage to shoot down 11 aircraft (some say only 9). Some reports I have read say he shot them down in a Fw-190 which if that is true then I would agree and label him a fighter ace but I am not sure on that. Please dont take me wrong, Rudel was a remarkable pilot. If you want to talk about fighter aces though then you have to name Erich Hartmann, Heinz Bar, Marsielle just to name a few.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well actually either way even with 9 or 11 kills no matter what he flew that still makes him an ace.

[Lightning Guy]

According to his own autobiography, most (if not all) of Rudel's kills were scored in a Stuka.

[lesofprimus]

I think it was 9 out of 11 were scored in the Stuka.....

[cheddar cheese]

That would sound like the most logical explanation...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is what I always thought anyhow that he shot them down in a Stuka. I have read some reports too that say it was a Fw-190 but most and as you said in his own autobiography it was a Stuka so that is what I believe myself.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

he should know..............

[cheddar cheese]

Unless he has memory loss...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

True true. I was just stating what other reports have said.

[Lightning Guy]

If I remember right, he scored at least one of his kills using the 37mm guns. I imagine a shell designed to knock out a T-34 would absolutely tear through a wooden Yak or LaGG.

[Erich]

Udet your information for the dates of Luftwaffe kills is incorrect.

for 26 November alone JG 301 claimed some 56 a/c and in reality knocked down 26. My cousin flying in 5./JG 301 was killed this day south of Misburg.

Hartmann and Rudel were in no way the greatest pilots. Rudel scored only two kills and that by his rear gunner while flying the Ju 87D and G. the rest were in the Fw 190F variant.

greetings

[R Pope]

It might be argued that one of the guys who shot Hartmann down was better? He was downed nine times.