The Greatest Fighter Pilot in WW II??? - Page 44 - Aircraft of World War II

wmaxt · 12-23-2004, 03:10 PM

Another story I heard was once when he was basicly traped by 5 Zero's and a small cloud called for help with the following statement "Come on down and join me.. I got 5 Zero's cornered here".

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-23-2004, 03:12 PM

I would say that the Fw-190D, Ta-152, P-51D, P-38L, Me-309 (if it had reached combat service) were atleast equal to the Spitfire. The later Mosquitos also handled really well and just maybe at low alltitudes could dogfight just as well as a Spit. Again I am not trying to dog the Spit, I am just saying that there were aircraft that were atleast equal or better.

lesofprimus · 12-23-2004, 03:17 PM

I dont think I would say the P-51D was BETTER than the Spitfire Mk IX... With a pilot that knew how to fly it, i would say it was a close equal....

I agree with u on the -190D, -152H, and possibly the -38L....

plan_D · 12-23-2004, 03:20 PM

The Spitfire was quite clearly better than the Mustang in a dogfight, and yes the P-51D. In a dogfight it would walk all over it. The only one that I see would match the Spitfire would be the 190D-9 and even then the Spit Mk. XIV had many advantages over it...still couldn't out roll the little bugger.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-23-2004, 03:21 PM

That is all I said that the P-51D was atleast an equal. Again I am not saying that the Spitfire was not a great dogfighter. I just think that there were aircraft that were just as good and in my personal opinion it was not the best. I like the Ta-152 and the P-51D for dogfighting.

plan_D · 12-23-2004, 03:22 PM

You might like the P-51D but it doesn't make it even an equal dogfighter with the Spit.

lesofprimus · 12-23-2004, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Again I am not saying that the Spitfire was not a great dogfighter.

I think we all understand this now DerAdler hehe......

Quote:

I like the Ta-152 and the P-51D for dogfighting.

I certainly hope ur not saying the P-51D was a better dogfighter than the -190D9......

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-23-2004, 03:24 PM

The P-51D is not my fav aircraft I am just saying that in my personal opinion I think it was an equal to the Spit.

plan_D · 12-23-2004, 03:25 PM

Really though opinion doesn't come into this. In a dogfight the Spit wins hands down. We're not talking aircraft ability here 'cos we all know the Mustang had much better range...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-23-2004, 03:26 PM

No I think the 190D was a great dogfighter but I still stick to my guns about the Ta-152. She was a superb aircraft and I think would have put some brown stains in the underwear of the Spit flyers had it come out a bit earlier.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-23-2004, 03:27 PM

Okay you may win on the P-51D however like I said I am sticking to my guns on the 190D and the Ta-152.

lesofprimus · 12-23-2004, 03:27 PM

Quote:

yes the P-51D. In a dogfight it would walk all over it.

That Im not too sure about buddy... I think that if both pilots were experienced Aces, the combat would be closer than u are implying.... Probably pretty even win %.... The -51D was a hell of a plane planD..... So was the Mk XIV....

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-23-2004, 03:32 PM

As you all say the Spit XIV may have been a better dogfighter than the P-51D but it was not a walk in the park to beat even for the Spit. I agree with you on that Les. I will concede defeat thought that the Spit was better than the P-51D in dogfighting but not the Fw-190D or Ta-152.

plan_D · 12-23-2004, 03:34 PM

I'm not saying the P-51 was a poor plane but it is a fact that the Spit. Mk. XIV was a better dogfighter. The Ta-152 and -190D-9 were both brilliant aircraft but the Mk. XIV could still safely tangle with them and more than likely come out on top.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-23-2004, 03:34 PM

Any how I need to go to sleep I have a really long day tomorrow. If I dont get to come online tomorrow or the next day and I am sure you all wont since its Christmas, I would like to wish you all a Merry Christmas and enjoy the hollidays.

View Poll Results: The Best Ace???
Ivan Kozhedub	29	11.93%
Erich Hartmann	175	72.02%
Constantine Cantacuzine	12	4.94%
Richard Bong	27	11.11%
Voters: 243. You may not vote on this poll

12-23-2004, 03:12 PM	#647
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,072	I would say that the Fw-190D, Ta-152, P-51D, P-38L, Me-309 (if it had reached combat service) were atleast equal to the Spitfire. The later Mosquitos also handled really well and just maybe at low alltitudes could dogfight just as well as a Spit. Again I am not trying to dog the Spit, I am just saying that there were aircraft that were atleast equal or better. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

12-23-2004, 03:17 PM	#648
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 18,460	I dont think I would say the P-51D was BETTER than the Spitfire Mk IX... With a pilot that knew how to fly it, i would say it was a close equal.... I agree with u on the -190D, -152H, and possibly the -38L.... __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk My 1/32nd Rendition of His Corsair: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/2-p...3-a-20416.html

12-23-2004, 03:20 PM	#649
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	The Spitfire was quite clearly better than the Mustang in a dogfight, and yes the P-51D. In a dogfight it would walk all over it. The only one that I see would match the Spitfire would be the 190D-9 and even then the Spit Mk. XIV had many advantages over it...still couldn't out roll the little bugger. __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

12-23-2004, 03:21 PM	#650
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,072	That is all I said that the P-51D was atleast an equal. Again I am not saying that the Spitfire was not a great dogfighter. I just think that there were aircraft that were just as good and in my personal opinion it was not the best. I like the Ta-152 and the P-51D for dogfighting. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

12-23-2004, 03:10 PM	#646
wmaxt Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,175	Another story I heard was once when he was basicly traped by 5 Zero's and a small cloud called for help with the following statement "Come on down and join me.. I got 5 Zero's cornered here".

12-23-2004, 03:22 PM	#651
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	You might like the P-51D but it doesn't make it even an equal dogfighter with the Spit. __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

12-23-2004, 03:24 PM	#653
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,072	The P-51D is not my fav aircraft I am just saying that in my personal opinion I think it was an equal to the Spit. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

12-23-2004, 03:25 PM	#654
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	Really though opinion doesn't come into this. In a dogfight the Spit wins hands down. We're not talking aircraft ability here 'cos we all know the Mustang had much better range... __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

12-23-2004, 03:26 PM	#655
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,072	No I think the 190D was a great dogfighter but I still stick to my guns about the Ta-152. She was a superb aircraft and I think would have put some brown stains in the underwear of the Spit flyers had it come out a bit earlier. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

12-23-2004, 03:27 PM	#656
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,072	Okay you may win on the P-51D however like I said I am sticking to my guns on the 190D and the Ta-152. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

12-23-2004, 03:32 PM	#658
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,072	As you all say the Spit XIV may have been a better dogfighter than the P-51D but it was not a walk in the park to beat even for the Spit. I agree with you on that Les. I will concede defeat thought that the Spit was better than the P-51D in dogfighting but not the Fw-190D or Ta-152. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

12-23-2004, 03:34 PM	#659
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	I'm not saying the P-51 was a poor plane but it is a fact that the Spit. Mk. XIV was a better dogfighter. The Ta-152 and -190D-9 were both brilliant aircraft but the Mk. XIV could still safely tangle with them and more than likely come out on top. __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

12-23-2004, 03:34 PM	#660
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,072	Any how I need to go to sleep I have a really long day tomorrow. If I dont get to come online tomorrow or the next day and I am sure you all wont since its Christmas, I would like to wish you all a Merry Christmas and enjoy the hollidays. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

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