 | The Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII... Finalized....| Polls Discuss The Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII... Finalized.... in the World War II - Aviation forums; I wouldnt call McGuire boring...
And why does everyone forget the Italian aces? (No prizes for any jokes saying "... |
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View Poll Results: The Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII.......... | |
Ivan Kozhedub, 62 Kills
|    | 101 | 7.92% | |
Alexandr Pokryshkin, 59 Kills
|    | 45 | 3.53% | |
Hans-Joachim Marseille, 158 Kills
|    | 178 | 13.95% | |
Erich Hartmann, 352 Kills
|    | 274 | 21.47% | |
Adolf Galland, 104 Kills
|    | 77 | 6.03% | |
Heinz Bar, 221 Kills
|    | 132 | 10.34% | |
Walter Nowotny, 259 Kills
| | 75 | 5.88% | |
Josef Priller, 101 Kills
| | 40 | 3.13% | |
Dick Bong, 40 Kills
| | 45 | 3.53% | |
David McCampbell, 34 Kills
| | 33 | 2.59% | |
Hiroyoshi Nishizawa, 87 Kills
| | 66 | 5.17% | |
Saburo Sakai, 64 Kills
| | 24 | 1.88% | |
Marmaduke St. John Pattle, 62 Kills
| | 96 | 7.52% | |
Johnnie Johnson, 38 Kills
| | 50 | 3.92% | |
Thomas McGuire, 38 Kills
| | 40 | 3.13% | 
01-23-2006, 03:00 PM
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#136 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country:  | I wouldnt call McGuire boring... 
And why does everyone forget the Italian aces?  (No prizes for any jokes saying "cos they didnt have any"  )
__________________  with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | 
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01-23-2006, 03:15 PM
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#137 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
| No there plenty of great american fighter pilots. I happen to really like Pappy Boyington. He is my favorite American Ace. The only reason that I really go for the Luftwaffe aces is because they did what they did at increadable odds.[/quote]
I understand all of this. But when I was growing up the only ace that was famous was Pappy because of his infamous series, maybe Yeager and many forget he was an ace in a day. You only seemed to hear about Galland, Hartmann, Johnson, Bader, etc, etc, etc. The first time I ever read about American aces was in Gene Gurney's Five Down and Glory. It was years before I saw other books and these were the Hammel books. I guess, because when I was growing up, the major WWII documentary was The World at War, which had a more Euro slant and so were many of the books at the time. I still have to thank Bantam and thier WWII series for saving my historical mind. Even today it seems that US aces are still in the wings, exept for Pappy or Yeager.
:{)
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During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | |
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01-23-2006, 03:24 PM
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#138 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,263
Country:  | Having spent a good chunk of my growing up years in Wisconsin, I got to hear plenty about Richard Bong. There was even an Air Force base in Wisconsin named after him. It was long since closed though.
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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01-23-2006, 03:31 PM
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#139 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
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Originally Posted by cheddar cheese I wouldnt call McGuire boring...
I know this now, but its one of those things that he didn't intrest me back then so he is sort of low on my radar.
And why does everyone forget the Italian aces? (No prizes for any jokes saying "cos they didnt have any" ) | Hell yes! I thought the Italians, especially those that fought in North Africa in Fiat and Cr.-planes were the bomb. The tri-color over the desert. In fact the last Bi-plane to bi-plane fight was won by a Italian in Cr. 42Something about thier panache made them great. The top scorer was Capitano Franco Lucchini. His unit 4 Stormo, 90a Sq. shot down almost 600 aircraft and had 32 aces. He had 26 (five in the Spanish Civil War)victories and 52 shared ones. If y'all want to see his record go to http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/lucchini/lucchini.htm
Thats him on the plane :{)
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During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | |
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01-23-2006, 03:33 PM
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#140 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
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Originally Posted by evangilder Having spent a good chunk of my growing up years in Wisconsin, I got to hear plenty about Richard Bong. There was even an Air Force base in Wisconsin named after him. It was long since closed though. | I guess growing up in PR, I got a more Euro slant on the war, until I got to high school.
:{)
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During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | |
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01-23-2006, 03:35 PM
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#141 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,199
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by lesofprimus Quote: |
Baer's 16 kills in the ME262 made him the leading jet ace in WW2 and also until 1973 the leading jet ace of all nations.
| If I'm not mistaken, there were a couple of Russians and 1 American in Korea that scored 16 or more kills in Korea.... Joseph McConnell had 16 kills by 5/18/1953, with the Top Scorers being Evgeni Pepelyaev and Nick Sutyagin with 23 kills....
And once again for the record, Heinz Baer in my book is just about unmatched in this catagory.... | That is possable I was going by my memory. Thanks Les if you are correct.
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In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
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01-23-2006, 04:05 PM
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#142 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,705
Country: | Ur welcome and Im pretty sure I am... The Russian stats are always alittle flunky, but in recent articles and info, these #'s all seem pretty tight...
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
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01-23-2006, 04:21 PM
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#143 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,199
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Originally Posted by lesofprimus Ur welcome and Im pretty sure I am... The Russian stats are always alittle flunky, but in recent articles and info, these #'s all seem pretty tight... | Cool
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In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
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01-24-2006, 05:56 AM
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#144 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,263
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by CurzonDax Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder Having spent a good chunk of my growing up years in Wisconsin, I got to hear plenty about Richard Bong. There was even an Air Force base in Wisconsin named after him. It was long since closed though. | I guess growing up in PR, I got a more Euro slant on the war, until I got to high school.
:{) | Kind of makes sense, but you did list Boyington. It's funny, the press called him Pappy, but his men never called him Pappy. They called him "Gramps" as he was at the "advanced" age of 30 while most of his men were in their 20s.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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01-24-2006, 07:29 AM
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#145 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
| Kind of makes sense, but you did list Boyington. It's funny, the press called him Pappy, but his men never called him Pappy. They called him "Gramps" as he was at the "advanced" age of 30 while most of his men were in their 20s.[/quote]
Ah that comes from the miracle of a very basic cable system we had down there. Baa Baa Black Sheep was televised down there in both Spanish and Englsh!
:{)
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During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | |
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01-24-2006, 08:14 AM
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#146 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,263
Country: | Ah ok. It's funny, lasst night on the Military Channel on Legends of Airpower, the had an episode on Richard Bong! He was a quiet, unassuming guy on the ground, but a hell of a pilot. If General Kenney had not pulled him out of combat, there is no telling what his tally might have been.
A couple of amazing stories about his piloting skills:
When at Hamilton field, near San Francisco, he flew loops around the center span of the Golden Gate bridge and flew low enough down market street to wave to the secretaries and stenographers!
Barry Goldwater was his gunnery instructor at Luke Field in Arizona. He said that Bong was an exceptional student. While at Luke, flying an AT-6, he flew an engagement against a P-38 with an experienced pilot. No matter how hard he tried, the P-38 pilot could not shake Bong, who was flying the AT-6! The P-38 pilot said that Bong was the finest natural pilot he ever met.
A p-38 versus an AT-6 is not even a match and the P-38 holds all of the advantages, yet Dick Bong stuck to the P-38.
While in the Pacific, he became known for his "silent landings". He would come in with both engines feathered, perform a loop and then land!
He was an amazing pilot.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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01-24-2006, 08:35 AM
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#147 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,661
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder Ah ok. It's funny, lasst night on the Military Channel on Legends of Airpower, the had an episode on Richard Bong! He was a quiet, unassuming guy on the ground, but a hell of a pilot. If General Kenney had not pulled him out of combat, there is no telling what his tally might have been.
A couple of amazing stories about his piloting skills:
When at Hamilton field, near San Francisco, he flew loops around the center span of the Golden Gate bridge and flew low enough down market street to wave to the secretaries and stenographers!
Barry Goldwater was his gunnery instructor at Luke Field in Arizona. He said that Bong was an exceptional student. While at Luke, flying an AT-6, he flew an engagement against a P-38 with an experienced pilot. No matter how hard he tried, the P-38 pilot could not shake Bong, who was flying the AT-6! The P-38 pilot said that Bong was the finest natural pilot he ever met.
A p-38 versus an AT-6 is not even a match and the P-38 holds all of the advantages, yet Dick Bong stuck to the P-38.
While in the Pacific, he became known for his "silent landings". He would come in with both engines feathered, perform a loop and then land!
He was an amazing pilot. | I still think some big name producer needs to make a movie about him and McGuire - the Lindberg visit, Bongs SF antics, a perfect hollywood script!
Imagine if Speilberg got a hold of this one!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | 
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01-24-2006, 08:41 AM
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#148 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,263
Country: | I agree. It would make a great movie. But you know how Hollywood hates tragic endings...
The really sad part is that the news of his death was overshadowed by the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima and so it went mostly unnoticed, except for the people in the 5th AF.
General Kenney had a nice eulogy for him:
"On August 6, 1945, I was on my way to take off for Headquarters of the Southwest Pacific area in Manila when a radio telegram which had been relayed there was handed to me by my signal officer. Right then, I stopped thinking of the atom bomb which had wiped out Hiroshima that morning, stopped speculation about the effect of the coming entry of Russia into the Pacific War, even stopped thinking of the capitulation of Japan which we all knew was about to take place in a few days. Wherever I landed, I found that the whole Fifth Air Force felt the same, that we had lost a loved one, someone we had been glad to see out of combat and on his way home eight months before. Major Richard I. Bong of Poplar was dead...
"You see, we not only loved him, we boasted about him, we were proud of him. That's why each of us got a lump in our throats when we read that telegram about his death. Major Bong, Ace of American Aces in all our wars, is destined to hold the title for all time. With the weapons we possess today, no war of the future will last long enough for any pilot to run up 40 victories again.
"His country and the Air Force must never forget their number-one fighter pilot, who will inspire other fighter pilots and countless thousands of youngsters who will want to follow in his footsteps every time that any nation or coalition of nations dares to challenge our right to think, speak, and live as a free people."
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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01-24-2006, 08:56 AM
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#149 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,661
Country: | That's outstanding! 
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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01-24-2006, 09:04 AM
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#150 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
| I still think some big name producer needs to make a movie about him and McGuire - the Lindberg visit, Bongs SF antics, a perfect hollywood script!
Imagine if Speilberg got a hold of this one![/quote]
But why, Cruise is going to make the world safe for democracy next year. He's going to win the Battle of Britain all by his scientology self! 
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During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | |
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