The Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII... Finalized.... - Page 10 - Aircraft of World War II

cheddar cheese · 01-23-2006, 03:00 PM

I wouldnt call McGuire boring...

And why does everyone forget the Italian aces?

(No prizes for any jokes saying "cos they didnt have any"

)

CurzonDax · 01-23-2006, 03:15 PM

No there plenty of great american fighter pilots. I happen to really like Pappy Boyington. He is my favorite American Ace. The only reason that I really go for the Luftwaffe aces is because they did what they did at increadable odds.[/quote]

I understand all of this. But when I was growing up the only ace that was famous was Pappy because of his infamous series, maybe Yeager and many forget he was an ace in a day. You only seemed to hear about Galland, Hartmann, Johnson, Bader, etc, etc, etc. The first time I ever read about American aces was in Gene Gurney's Five Down and Glory. It was years before I saw other books and these were the Hammel books. I guess, because when I was growing up, the major WWII documentary was The World at War, which had a more Euro slant and so were many of the books at the time. I still have to thank Bantam and thier WWII series for saving my historical mind. Even today it seems that US aces are still in the wings, exept for Pappy or Yeager.

:{)

evangilder · 01-23-2006, 03:24 PM

Having spent a good chunk of my growing up years in Wisconsin, I got to hear plenty about Richard Bong. There was even an Air Force base in Wisconsin named after him. It was long since closed though.

CurzonDax · 01-23-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheddar cheese

I wouldnt call McGuire boring...

I know this now, but its one of those things that he didn't intrest me back then so he is sort of low on my radar.

And why does everyone forget the Italian aces?

(No prizes for any jokes saying "cos they didnt have any"

)

Hell yes! I thought the Italians, especially those that fought in North Africa in Fiat and Cr.-planes were the bomb. The tri-color over the desert. In fact the last Bi-plane to bi-plane fight was won by a Italian in Cr. 42Something about thier panache made them great. The top scorer was Capitano Franco Lucchini. His unit 4 Stormo, 90a Sq. shot down almost 600 aircraft and had 32 aces. He had 26 (five in the Spanish Civil War)victories and 52 shared ones. If y'all want to see his record go to http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/lucchini/lucchini.htm

Thats him on the plane :{)

CurzonDax · 01-23-2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangilder

Having spent a good chunk of my growing up years in Wisconsin, I got to hear plenty about Richard Bong. There was even an Air Force base in Wisconsin named after him. It was long since closed though.

I guess growing up in PR, I got a more Euro slant on the war, until I got to high school.

:{)

Hunter368 · 01-23-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

Quote:

Baer's 16 kills in the ME262 made him the leading jet ace in WW2 and also until 1973 the leading jet ace of all nations.

If I'm not mistaken, there were a couple of Russians and 1 American in Korea that scored 16 or more kills in Korea.... Joseph McConnell had 16 kills by 5/18/1953, with the Top Scorers being Evgeni Pepelyaev and Nick Sutyagin with 23 kills....

And once again for the record, Heinz Baer in my book is just about unmatched in this catagory....

That is possable I was going by my memory. Thanks Les if you are correct.

lesofprimus · 01-23-2006, 04:05 PM

Ur welcome and Im pretty sure I am... The Russian stats are always alittle flunky, but in recent articles and info, these #'s all seem pretty tight...

Hunter368 · 01-23-2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

Ur welcome and Im pretty sure I am... The Russian stats are always alittle flunky, but in recent articles and info, these #'s all seem pretty tight...

Cool

evangilder · 01-24-2006, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurzonDax

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangilder

Having spent a good chunk of my growing up years in Wisconsin, I got to hear plenty about Richard Bong. There was even an Air Force base in Wisconsin named after him. It was long since closed though.

I guess growing up in PR, I got a more Euro slant on the war, until I got to high school.

:{)

Kind of makes sense, but you did list Boyington. It's funny, the press called him Pappy, but his men never called him Pappy. They called him "Gramps" as he was at the "advanced" age of 30 while most of his men were in their 20s.

CurzonDax · 01-24-2006, 07:29 AM

Kind of makes sense, but you did list Boyington. It's funny, the press called him Pappy, but his men never called him Pappy. They called him "Gramps" as he was at the "advanced" age of 30 while most of his men were in their 20s.[/quote]

Ah that comes from the miracle of a very basic cable system we had down there. Baa Baa Black Sheep was televised down there in both Spanish and Englsh!

:{)

evangilder · 01-24-2006, 08:14 AM

Ah ok. It's funny, lasst night on the Military Channel on Legends of Airpower, the had an episode on Richard Bong! He was a quiet, unassuming guy on the ground, but a hell of a pilot. If General Kenney had not pulled him out of combat, there is no telling what his tally might have been.

A couple of amazing stories about his piloting skills:
When at Hamilton field, near San Francisco, he flew loops around the center span of the Golden Gate bridge and flew low enough down market street to wave to the secretaries and stenographers!

Barry Goldwater was his gunnery instructor at Luke Field in Arizona. He said that Bong was an exceptional student. While at Luke, flying an AT-6, he flew an engagement against a P-38 with an experienced pilot. No matter how hard he tried, the P-38 pilot could not shake Bong, who was flying the AT-6! The P-38 pilot said that Bong was the finest natural pilot he ever met.

A p-38 versus an AT-6 is not even a match and the P-38 holds all of the advantages, yet Dick Bong stuck to the P-38.

While in the Pacific, he became known for his "silent landings". He would come in with both engines feathered, perform a loop and then land!

He was an amazing pilot.

FLYBOYJ · 01-24-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangilder

Ah ok. It's funny, lasst night on the Military Channel on Legends of Airpower, the had an episode on Richard Bong! He was a quiet, unassuming guy on the ground, but a hell of a pilot. If General Kenney had not pulled him out of combat, there is no telling what his tally might have been.

A couple of amazing stories about his piloting skills:
When at Hamilton field, near San Francisco, he flew loops around the center span of the Golden Gate bridge and flew low enough down market street to wave to the secretaries and stenographers!

Barry Goldwater was his gunnery instructor at Luke Field in Arizona. He said that Bong was an exceptional student. While at Luke, flying an AT-6, he flew an engagement against a P-38 with an experienced pilot. No matter how hard he tried, the P-38 pilot could not shake Bong, who was flying the AT-6! The P-38 pilot said that Bong was the finest natural pilot he ever met.

A p-38 versus an AT-6 is not even a match and the P-38 holds all of the advantages, yet Dick Bong stuck to the P-38.

While in the Pacific, he became known for his "silent landings". He would come in with both engines feathered, perform a loop and then land!

He was an amazing pilot.

I still think some big name producer needs to make a movie about him and McGuire - the Lindberg visit, Bongs SF antics, a perfect hollywood script!

Imagine if Speilberg got a hold of this one!

evangilder · 01-24-2006, 08:41 AM

I agree. It would make a great movie. But you know how Hollywood hates tragic endings...

The really sad part is that the news of his death was overshadowed by the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima and so it went mostly unnoticed, except for the people in the 5th AF.

General Kenney had a nice eulogy for him:
"On August 6, 1945, I was on my way to take off for Headquarters of the Southwest Pacific area in Manila when a radio telegram which had been relayed there was handed to me by my signal officer. Right then, I stopped thinking of the atom bomb which had wiped out Hiroshima that morning, stopped speculation about the effect of the coming entry of Russia into the Pacific War, even stopped thinking of the capitulation of Japan which we all knew was about to take place in a few days. Wherever I landed, I found that the whole Fifth Air Force felt the same, that we had lost a loved one, someone we had been glad to see out of combat and on his way home eight months before. Major Richard I. Bong of Poplar was dead...

"You see, we not only loved him, we boasted about him, we were proud of him. That's why each of us got a lump in our throats when we read that telegram about his death. Major Bong, Ace of American Aces in all our wars, is destined to hold the title for all time. With the weapons we possess today, no war of the future will last long enough for any pilot to run up 40 victories again.

"His country and the Air Force must never forget their number-one fighter pilot, who will inspire other fighter pilots and countless thousands of youngsters who will want to follow in his footsteps every time that any nation or coalition of nations dares to challenge our right to think, speak, and live as a free people."

FLYBOYJ · 01-24-2006, 08:56 AM

That's outstanding!

CurzonDax · 01-24-2006, 09:04 AM

I still think some big name producer needs to make a movie about him and McGuire - the Lindberg visit, Bongs SF antics, a perfect hollywood script!

Imagine if Speilberg got a hold of this one![/quote]

But why, Cruise is going to make the world safe for democracy next year. He's going to win the Battle of Britain all by his scientology self!

View Poll Results: The Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII..........
Ivan Kozhedub, 62 Kills	105	7.78%
Alexandr Pokryshkin, 59 Kills	46	3.41%
Hans-Joachim Marseille, 158 Kills	195	14.46%
Erich Hartmann, 352 Kills	304	22.54%
Adolf Galland, 104 Kills	83	6.15%
Heinz Bar, 221 Kills	136	10.08%
Walter Nowotny, 259 Kills	75	5.56%
Josef Priller, 101 Kills	40	2.97%
Dick Bong, 40 Kills	47	3.48%
David McCampbell, 34 Kills	35	2.59%
Hiroyoshi Nishizawa, 87 Kills	67	4.97%
Saburo Sakai, 64 Kills	27	2.00%
Marmaduke St. John Pattle, 62 Kills	96	7.12%
Johnnie Johnson, 38 Kills	53	3.93%
Thomas McGuire, 38 Kills	40	2.97%
Voters: 1349. You may not vote on this poll

01-23-2006, 03:15 PM	#137
CurzonDax Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 355	No there plenty of great american fighter pilots. I happen to really like Pappy Boyington. He is my favorite American Ace. The only reason that I really go for the Luftwaffe aces is because they did what they did at increadable odds.[/quote] I understand all of this. But when I was growing up the only ace that was famous was Pappy because of his infamous series, maybe Yeager and many forget he was an ace in a day. You only seemed to hear about Galland, Hartmann, Johnson, Bader, etc, etc, etc. The first time I ever read about American aces was in Gene Gurney's Five Down and Glory. It was years before I saw other books and these were the Hammel books. I guess, because when I was growing up, the major WWII documentary was The World at War, which had a more Euro slant and so were many of the books at the time. I still have to thank Bantam and thier WWII series for saving my historical mind. Even today it seems that US aces are still in the wings, exept for Pappy or Yeager. :{) __________________ During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG!

01-23-2006, 03:24 PM	#138
evangilder "Shooter" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 15,421	Having spent a good chunk of my growing up years in Wisconsin, I got to hear plenty about Richard Bong. There was even an Air Force base in Wisconsin named after him. It was long since closed though. __________________ For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

01-23-2006, 04:05 PM	#142
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 18,463	Ur welcome and Im pretty sure I am... The Russian stats are always alittle flunky, but in recent articles and info, these #'s all seem pretty tight... __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk My 1/32nd Rendition of His Corsair: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/2-p...3-a-20416.html

01-24-2006, 07:29 AM	#145
CurzonDax Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 355	Kind of makes sense, but you did list Boyington. It's funny, the press called him Pappy, but his men never called him Pappy. They called him "Gramps" as he was at the "advanced" age of 30 while most of his men were in their 20s.[/quote] Ah that comes from the miracle of a very basic cable system we had down there. Baa Baa Black Sheep was televised down there in both Spanish and Englsh! :{) __________________ During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG!

01-23-2006, 03:00 PM	#136
cheddar cheese Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WSM, England Posts: 20,387	I wouldnt call McGuire boring... And why does everyone forget the Italian aces? (No prizes for any jokes saying "cos they didnt have any" )

01-24-2006, 08:14 AM	#146
evangilder "Shooter" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 15,421	Ah ok. It's funny, lasst night on the Military Channel on Legends of Airpower, the had an episode on Richard Bong! He was a quiet, unassuming guy on the ground, but a hell of a pilot. If General Kenney had not pulled him out of combat, there is no telling what his tally might have been. A couple of amazing stories about his piloting skills: When at Hamilton field, near San Francisco, he flew loops around the center span of the Golden Gate bridge and flew low enough down market street to wave to the secretaries and stenographers! Barry Goldwater was his gunnery instructor at Luke Field in Arizona. He said that Bong was an exceptional student. While at Luke, flying an AT-6, he flew an engagement against a P-38 with an experienced pilot. No matter how hard he tried, the P-38 pilot could not shake Bong, who was flying the AT-6! The P-38 pilot said that Bong was the finest natural pilot he ever met. A p-38 versus an AT-6 is not even a match and the P-38 holds all of the advantages, yet Dick Bong stuck to the P-38. While in the Pacific, he became known for his "silent landings". He would come in with both engines feathered, perform a loop and then land! He was an amazing pilot. __________________ For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

01-24-2006, 08:41 AM	#148
evangilder "Shooter" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 15,421	I agree. It would make a great movie. But you know how Hollywood hates tragic endings... The really sad part is that the news of his death was overshadowed by the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima and so it went mostly unnoticed, except for the people in the 5th AF. General Kenney had a nice eulogy for him: "On August 6, 1945, I was on my way to take off for Headquarters of the Southwest Pacific area in Manila when a radio telegram which had been relayed there was handed to me by my signal officer. Right then, I stopped thinking of the atom bomb which had wiped out Hiroshima that morning, stopped speculation about the effect of the coming entry of Russia into the Pacific War, even stopped thinking of the capitulation of Japan which we all knew was about to take place in a few days. Wherever I landed, I found that the whole Fifth Air Force felt the same, that we had lost a loved one, someone we had been glad to see out of combat and on his way home eight months before. Major Richard I. Bong of Poplar was dead... "You see, we not only loved him, we boasted about him, we were proud of him. That's why each of us got a lump in our throats when we read that telegram about his death. Major Bong, Ace of American Aces in all our wars, is destined to hold the title for all time. With the weapons we possess today, no war of the future will last long enough for any pilot to run up 40 victories again. "His country and the Air Force must never forget their number-one fighter pilot, who will inspire other fighter pilots and countless thousands of youngsters who will want to follow in his footsteps every time that any nation or coalition of nations dares to challenge our right to think, speak, and live as a free people." __________________ For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

01-24-2006, 08:56 AM	#149
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,880	That's outstanding! __________________ > I Support Doug Gillis <

01-24-2006, 09:04 AM	#150
CurzonDax Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 355	I still think some big name producer needs to make a movie about him and McGuire - the Lindberg visit, Bongs SF antics, a perfect hollywood script! Imagine if Speilberg got a hold of this one![/quote] But why, Cruise is going to make the world safe for democracy next year. He's going to win the Battle of Britain all by his scientology self! __________________ During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG!

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