The Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII... Finalized....

Lucky13 · 03-11-2007, 10:24 PM

"Once committed to an attack, fly in at full speed. After scoring crippling or disabling hits, I would clear myself and then repeat the process. I never pursued the enemy once they had eluded me. Better to break off and set up again for a new assault. I always began my attacks from full strength, if possible, my ideal flying height being 22,000 ft because at that altitude I could best utilize the performance of my aircraft. Combat flying is based on the slashing attack and rough maneuvering. In combat flying, fancy precision aerobatic work is really not of much use. Instead, it is the rough maneuver which succeeds"

"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman."

"It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. The were made to fly as wingman, instead."

"You can have computer sights of anything you like, but I think you have to go to the enemy on the shortest distance and knock him down from point-blank range. You'll get him from in close. At long distance, it's questionable."

"I opened fire when the whole windshield was black with the enemy . . . at minimum range . . . it doesn't matter what your angle is to him or whether you are in a turn or any other maneuver."

"See, decide, attack, reverse."

"Every day kill just one, rather than today five, tomorrow ten . . . that is enough for you. Then your nerves are calm and you can sleep good, you have your drink in the evening and the next morning you are fit again."

"If he is superior then I would go home, for another day that is better."

Yep.... You all know this gentleman fellas. It's all from Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, Luftwaffe.

ohka345 · 03-17-2007, 06:51 PM

I also saw the thing on Discovery about SAKAI!

Treize · 03-18-2007, 12:01 AM

Can't believe Zemke and Blakeslee aren't choices. Guys who led the 2 most successful USAAF units and each ran up a respectable score of their own.

Heck, Blakeslee fought for over 3 years non-stop before finally being ordered out of combat and sent home.

Blakeslee would be my choice. Zemke second. Charles MacDonald third. Got a thing for combat leadership.

lesofprimus · 03-18-2007, 12:18 AM

Zemke was on a previous poll and garnered ZERO votes, so he is not included in this poll...

Wierd how all 3 of ur choices are American.... Alittle biased perhaps???

Erich · 03-18-2007, 12:40 AM

Treize you seem to forget that it was a US 9th AF fighter unit from my home state that led all USAF in the ETO fighter groups top scoring, the Pioneer Mustangs - 354th fg.

Treize · 03-18-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

Treize you seem to forget that it was a US 9th AF fighter unit from my home state that led all USAF in the ETO fighter groups top scoring, the Pioneer Mustangs - 354th fg.

Only in a2a, both the 4th and 56th beat them in combined a2a and ground kills. 4th also lost fewer pilots and aircraft despite being in action 16 months longer. Don't know the stats on the 56th.

And on this topic, of course I'm liable to be a bit biased, my grandfather did serve under Blakeslee for 2 years. Zemke was just as effective a leader, he just went about it in a totally different way. And MacDonald was the Blakeslee of the Pacific.

Zemke probably got 0 votes because most people just looks at how many kills a pilot got.

And I'm deleting the rest of this post because I'm tired, in a bad mood and this just got even more argumentative as it went.

lesofprimus · 03-18-2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

And on this topic, of course I'm liable to be a bit biased, my grandfather did serve under Blakeslee

And my Grandpa was a Blacksheep and flew with Pappy Boyington, but that doesnt make me so nearsighted that I cant see what Heinz Bar accomplished, killing on every front....

Quote:

Zemke probably got 0 votes because most people just looks at how many kills a pilot got.

I doubt that... There are some very intelligent members here, and while being a great leader and tactician matter, this Poll is about the Greatest Fighter Pilot, and fighter pilots shoot down enemy aircraft...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-18-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treize

And I'm deleting the rest of this post because I'm tired, in a bad mood and this just got even more argumentative as it went.

Ohhhhh does someone not like it when someone disagrees with them?

This discussion did not get argumentive at all, it was a discussion. Not everyone is going to agree or disagree with you. That is life, get over it and dont throw a temper tantrum....

Marcel · 03-18-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohka345

I also saw the thing on Discovery about SAKAI!

Yeah, well, gotta give the guy some credit, that was one hell of an accomplishment. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction, don't you think?

Erich · 03-18-2007, 04:46 PM

what a bunch of crock, aerial kills is very important and the 354th beat them both out.

who cares anyway really ..........

Zemke was a hoot as I knew him. Overall the kills category really does not matter in the long run. It is the extent of service and in what theater and what enemy with what a/c. I still do not buy that Hartmann was the best overall

Bullockracing · 03-19-2007, 07:07 AM

This is another of those "Greatest (insert whatever here)" polls, without clearly defined criteria for evaluation... Hmmmm... Aces are only made by scoring kills, so you either have to count total kills, or kill ratio based on kills per sortie. Hartmann gets the overall win - anyone got an idea on kill ratio - I know the two highest ratio German aces (and it ain't Hartman) - have to post up later...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-19-2007, 10:59 AM

If you are going to go off of scores then you have to go by who has the highest tally and in that case Hartmann is the greatest and in that case he is the best.

However you have to look at more than just kills and that is why based of books and reading I am with Les on this and in my opinoin and to me the best is Heinz Baer.

Hunter368 · 03-19-2007, 11:12 AM

Baer, forsure. You can't look at total kills (too many easy kills to be had in Russia early in the war), you can't look at kills to sorties ratio either (the highest in the LW was some guy, I don't have my books at hand right now for his name, who had something like 75 sorties and close to that in kills. But all that proves was he was hot for a month or two). You want a guy who has fought vs all the allies and done well, fought on all or most fronts and done well.....That is Baer.

You want a guy who started and ended the war, he did that also. Here is his stats that I quickly just grabbed of the net.

He fought on the : Western Front, Eastern Front, Mediterranean

ASSIGNED COMBAT AIRCRAFT:
Messerschmitt Bf 109E/F/G
Focke-Wulf Fw 190A-7/A-8
Messerschmitt Me 262A-1a

AWARDS:
Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern
(Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords)

VICTORIES:
220 Aerial Destroyed
59 Western Front
96 Eastern Front
65 Mediterranean Front

1000+ Combat Sorties

So he shot down 124 western planes and 96 Russian planes. (including 16 kills in a jet)

He was a warrior of the top level by anyone's standards and IMHO (and many others) he was the best of the best from WW2 (either Axis or Allied).

Gnomey · 03-19-2007, 02:20 PM

Agreed Hunter, that is why he got my vote as well.

lesofprimus · 03-19-2007, 02:36 PM

And he accomplished all of that while being Goering's least favorite pilot as well... Only reason he never got the Diamonds...