Greatest military blunder of WWII

Aussie1001 · 08-07-2007, 08:10 PM

Didn't the germans have a jet engine in '38 ????

lucanus · 08-07-2007, 08:32 PM

Yea but think how many more they would have had if they had properly
utilized the tech

Aussie1001 · 08-07-2007, 10:35 PM

But Hitler wasn't interested in the Air force or the navy was he? He just left it to goering didn't he ?
Isn't it true though that the british also had jet technolegy at the same time ?
I read somewhere that the meteor made it into service as the first jet in service anywhere a week before the 262 got in.

Michael · 08-07-2007, 11:12 PM

Greatest blunder? OK I will give my 2 cents. The greatest blunder was giving back Japan her nation. She was nation building and had taken most of Asia. That included killing 30 million Chinese and a few million other Asian folks. She surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY and the allies treated her better than she had or would have any nation she defeated.

syscom3 · 08-07-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

Greatest blunder? OK I will give my 2 cents. The greatest blunder was giving back Japan her nation. She was nation building and had taken most of Asia. That included killing 30 million Chinese and a few million other Asian folks. She surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY and the allies treated her better than she had or would have any nation she defeated.

We've been at peace with that country for 62 years now.

Far from a blunder.

Marcel · 08-07-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

Greatest blunder? OK I will give my 2 cents. The greatest blunder was giving back Japan her nation. She was nation building and had taken most of Asia. That included killing 30 million Chinese and a few million other Asian folks. She surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY and the allies treated her better than she had or would have any nation she defeated.

In what way was that a mistake? We have peace with them nowadays, haven't we? They don't threaten other nations anymore, do they? With your logic, you shouldn't have treated germany so well and they wouldn't have been one of your most loyal ally during the cold war.
To show mercy is to show one's greatness

lucanus · 08-08-2007, 12:34 AM

The occupation of Japan was controlled by MacArthur, since he was
the 'specialist on Japan'....He is the one who protected Hirohito and mandated
that the Japs set up a 'Democracy'....You know one of the things about
MacArthur was that he berated the command staff in the Phillipines for
surrendering....Of course he, left and went to Aussieland, under 'orders
from the President' taking his whole family including the nanny...Nobody else
got to take their families...If he was such a great guy, why did his only son
change his name and work as a saxophone player?

Njaco · 08-08-2007, 12:34 AM

Aussie,
The He 176 was the first rocket propelled plane and was ready for testing in summer 1938.

He 178 was first jet propelled and flew on 24 August 1939.

Me 262 became operational after EKdo 262 was formed in December 1943. Long training for the piston pilots meant the unit didn't see action until July 1944.

Gloster Meteor became operational on 12 July 1944 when RAF No 616 Sqdn recieved 2 Meteor F.1s flying their first sorties on 27 July.

Looking over this thread, I would have to say Hitler taking over the High Command was the greatest blunder of Germany during the war. Every mistep came from him.

plan_D · 08-08-2007, 04:55 AM

Lucanus, where have you heard that the German General Staff wanted to wait five years to begin the onslaught? Guderian states in his memoirs that the German General Staff never wanted a war; only the minute few 'looked forward' to the prospect of war.

In any case, if Germany had waited five years then the Soviet Union would have had a developed military machine which would have inflicted many millions more casualities on the German Wehrmacht in the event of a war between the two.

I agree that the French made some of the greatest blunders in World War II - the use of their armour as infantry support was a Great War mistake which cost them their country.

timshatz · 08-08-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

Good call. Everyone seems to forget that, as you have all these cubicle commandos ripping apart decisions that a military leader made. Military decisions are always made with incomplete intelligence, and very often it is the delay of action, or inaction, that can prove most disastrous.

I don't agree. And what's more, his contemporaries didn't agree. While my opinion doesn't mean much, others who knew him at the time felt the same way.

I agree with your points about armchair generals and making decisions with incomplete information. They are good and very valid points. But you need somebody, WE needed somebody, who would fight. And you will never have complete information. Doesn't matter if you are running a business or running a war. Most decisions are made in a fog. Make the right decisions, fame and fortune come your way (depending on which you want). Shy from it, and somebody else will come in to do it. Make the wrong decisions and you end up broke, disgraced and forgotten.

Wake was relatively insignificant in the scheme of things. It was a single island out in the middle of the Pacific. No great offensives were launched from it. It was not even deemed important enough to take back by the powers that be. Was liberated until the end of the war. But there was an opportunity there in 1941. Kimmel saw it, Pye saw only the down side.

Njaco · 08-08-2007, 08:48 AM

Plan, I also read ...can't remember the source, will check...that there was a tenative plan to have things ready for war by 42 or 43. May have not come from the Army Commanders but I believe that when they realized Hitler was serious they suggested those years as the earliest they would be ready to stage a war. Will check what I got.

syscom3 · 08-08-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Was liberated until the end of the war. But there was an opportunity there in 1941. Kimmel saw it, Pye saw only the down side.

There were only three carriers in the Pacific in Dec 1941. That was the whole USN offensive capability in that ocean untill the Yorktown and Hornet could get there.

Pye was right in withdrawing. Better to lose that island than to lose a carrier and be really ******.

timshatz · 08-08-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

There were only three carriers in the Pacific in Dec 1941. That was the whole USN offensive capability in that ocean untill the Yorktown and Hornet could get there.

Pye was right in withdrawing. Better to lose that island than to lose a carrier and be really ******.

Neither his predecessor (Kimmel) or the subsiquent commander (Nimitz) saw it that way. I can see how I read it wrong. No worries. But those guys sat in the same chair. They knew the risks, had the same responsibility. If they say Pye dropped the ball, wouldn't it follow that their perspective lends credibility to the assessment?

syscom3 · 08-08-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Neither his predecessor (Kimmel) or the subsiquent commander (Nimitz) saw it that way. I can see how I read it wrong. No worries. But those guys sat in the same chair. They knew the risks, had the same responsibility. If they say Pye dropped the ball, wouldn't it follow that their perspective lends credibility to the assessment?

They formed their opinions after some of the needed intelligence was developed.

From what everyone knew on the exact dates in question, Pye was right to be concerned and ultimatly proven right by preserving the carriers for future battles.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-08-2007, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

Greatest blunder? OK I will give my 2 cents. The greatest blunder was giving back Japan her nation. She was nation building and had taken most of Asia. That included killing 30 million Chinese and a few million other Asian folks. She surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY and the allies treated her better than she had or would have any nation she defeated.

And that my friends is an example of ignorance....