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05-11-2007, 07:19 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,876
| What about Hitlers order for the battle of Stalingrad to be fought in the city itself, and captured by flanking movements?
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05-11-2007, 08:18 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
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Country: | The Germans had already captured the flanks around Stalingrad. I don't think it was a blunder as such; there's no reason for German high command to expect the city to have been any more difficult to take then Kiev or Minsk. Although it was bad planning for the Germans to leave to Romanians to hold the flanks, I tihnk the eventual outcome was more down to good Soviet planning than bad German. |
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05-11-2007, 09:07 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States
Posts: 5,441
Country: | Definately Barbarossa. As a blunder it was the most devastating. It went way beyond the capabilities of Germany at the time.
I would add two more :
1. Invasion of Poland - only because most of Hitlers war machine was gearing up for a war around 1942 or nearabouts, went against the advice and planning of his Generals. Yes it succeeded but as a blunder I think it fits because of everything that came after.
2. Anzio - Classic example of well laid plans with poor application.
A third might be the failure to invade Malta. That was a huge sore spot for Germany and Italy.
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05-11-2007, 09:07 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sydney
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Country: | I think Hitlers Declaration of War on the US was a huge mistake.
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05-12-2007, 02:03 AM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
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Country: | agreed
__________________ Hello me...meet the real me.
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Speak of mutually assured destruction?
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05-12-2007, 08:40 AM
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#21 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,292
| Operation Barbarossa was absolutely not a mistake, however declaring war on the US before having defeated the USSR was a big mistake.
Operation Market Garden was a huge mistake as-well, one made by a man who should've known better if what is said about him is true.
Operation Battleaxe is another big mistake.
The Battle of Kasserine Pass was also a huge failure.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
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Last edited by Soren : 05-12-2007 at 08:57 AM.
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05-12-2007, 01:50 PM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States
Posts: 5,441
Country: | from the book "Military Blunders" by Saul David. Those listed for WWII:
General Percival and the Fall of Singapore
The Dieppe Raid
Arnhem (Market Garden)
Stalingrad
Crete
Kasserine Pass
Italy in North Africa 1940-41
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05-12-2007, 01:59 PM
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#23 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Country: | Hitlers decision to start the second world war at all by attacking Poland in 1939.....
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05-12-2007, 03:18 PM
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#24 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
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| Quote: |
General Percival and the Fall of Singapore
| This would qualify, as if the Japanese had been held up for a few months longer, the outcome in Burma might have been far different. But aside from losing so many men to an inferior force, I dont see it altering how the war in the Pacific would have unfolded. Not necessarly a blunder as the allies learned all the important lessons that they would put to good use in 1944. Not totally a blunder, more like a draw. Now this qualifies a major blunder as the war on the eastern front was changed because of the loss. A defeat, but it didnt qualify as a war changing defeat. Same as Crete. In fact it forced a change in command structure that served the allies well for the rest of the war. Quote: |
Italy in North Africa 1940-41
| I dont know a lot about this, so I cant really comment on it.
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05-12-2007, 03:35 PM
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#25 | | Senior Member
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Country: | It was "Il Duce's" attempt and some glory like Hitler had achieved and it failed badly (they also failed miserably in East Africa/Abyssinia)
Essentially the numerically superior Italian force got routed by the British. The Italian based themselves in so called forts which were isolated from one and other, the British attacked them one after the other forcing an Italian retreat all the way back to Tripoli which was prevented from being a complete rout by the arrival of the Afrika Korps.
More here: The Italian campaign in North Africa and the war in Greece during WW2 Italian Tanks at War - North Africa
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05-12-2007, 04:10 PM
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#26 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,414
Country: | I so wanted to put Market Garden down, from watching the movie, but I decided on Operation Barbarossa. Hitler turning on his ally was just plain arrogant, dumber than declaring war on the US in some ways, because the Japanese expected it of him since they were partners.
At least Market Garden didn't put us out of the war. But it was overeaching.......
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Last edited by Soundbreaker Welch? : 05-14-2007 at 04:13 PM.
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05-12-2007, 05:35 PM
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#27 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States
Posts: 5,441
Country: | I think what might help is a definition of Blunder. Mistakes are made and situations go bad but blunders are harmful even though a good outcome may result.
An example I would think would be Montgomery and El Alamein. His attack was failing until the Australians and New Zealanders made gains around Tell el Aqqaquir. That was through sheer strength and not battleplanning. Blunder on Monty's part.
I agree with the Dieppe raid on a whole was not a blunder except for the execution, which was done poorly. Dieppe was meant only as a probing mission and learning experience but someone forgot to tell them about shore batteries.
The blunder of Market Garden was not relying on your recon. When you have intel that says tanks are there, I would tend to factor that into the mission.
Crete may have been war changing in the fact Hitler wa gunshy with paratroops after that. With that Malta soldiered on and used up serious resources of the Axis in the Med.
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05-12-2007, 06:29 PM
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#28 | | Senior Member
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Posts: 4,292
| Market Garden was a complete blunder, esp, considering how Montgomery thought it would've turned out - the Allied forces were desimated. No'where near a draw !
The Battle for Kasserine Pass was an absolute failure for the US, complete disaster - one which prompted some emmidiate changes in command and structure for the US army.
The attack on Stalingrad wasn't a blunder - late in the struggle Göring's decision to drop the supplies the wrong place was however a big blunder.
Operation Barbarossa wasn't a blunder either, it was infact pretty good timing as the USSR was completely unprepared, it was besides highly likely that the USSR was eventually going to attack Germany, so Hitler decided not risk it and attack.
A true blunder, perhaps one of the very biggest of WW2, was Hitler deciding to bomb London instead of the British airfields - that was a war changing blunder for both fronts, east and west, for sure.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland |
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05-12-2007, 07:02 PM
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#29 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States
Posts: 5,441
Country: | Good one, Soren.Hhave to add London Blitz to my list.
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05-13-2007, 12:30 AM
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#30 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,876
| How about two blunders in one nights action at sea.....?
The First Battle of Savo Island, Aug 8/9.
The IJN inflicts a one sided defeat on the USN. A total whooping. Blunder by the USN for being caught flat footed and unprepared.
Then the IJN admiral changes course and leaves the area without attacking the unarmed and unprepared allied transports only 30 minutes away. Blunder by the IJN for forgetting what their mission was for.
If those transports were sunk, then the US would have lost Guadalcanal right then and there..... Battle of Savo Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Last edited by syscom3 : 05-13-2007 at 12:35 AM.
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