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04-30-2007, 05:57 PM
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#46 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,778
| Besides new and more powerful radars being developed other more sophisticated detection systems are as-well. Stealth detection system disappears from screens | The Register
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | 
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04-30-2007, 06:00 PM
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#47 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,778
| Well shaped and coated or not, you're still a mass flying in the air which will be in the way of some signals.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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05-01-2007, 02:30 PM
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#48 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,469
Country:  | This "detection system" has been on the boards since the Bosnian fracus. In fact, this was the officially claimed reason for the F-117 loss (coupled with the claim that the F-117 operational route was used repeatedly  ). However, the B-2, F-22 and F-35 do not rely solely upon angled facets to reflect RF energy. They also make high use of technology to prevent or minimize RF reflections. Thus, this "detection system", of whatever dubious merit it may be, has been addressed in 5th gen fighters.
It will always be a tradeoff of detection, avoidance and jamming.
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12-03-2007, 09:24 AM
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#49 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
Country:  | ef prolly
wvr, not sure if this is at all interesting anymore, besides, i cant make the comparison. The huge twr advantage of the EF might dominate the Jas wvr.
bwr, wouldnt the smaller rcs of the gripen be a rather big advantage here? Especially with stores? Or maybe all ac with stores have such a huge rcs that it wont make much of a difference. Detected at 1000km or 800km, big deal?
Radar, well, how often are fighters left to their own radar these days? awacs on attack, groundradar on defence.
Dont the missiles do all the work these days?
So, a small, cheapish fighter makes alot of sense imho. But the ef got huge advantages in speed, climb and stayingpower. But counting the potatoes before they are out of the ground would probably not be healthy for the flyers of the EF-af if they went up against a gripen af.
Last edited by nic_tester : 12-03-2007 at 09:29 AM.
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12-03-2007, 09:33 AM
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#50 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
Country: | disadvantages
the disadvantage of the gripen is pisspoor range, imho.
the disadvantage of the ef is that its a huge thing with two engines so can only be employed by the affluent with state of the art maintenance facilities. | |
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12-03-2007, 09:49 AM
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#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6,711
Country:  | Completely forgot about this thread.... 
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JAN
"I´m going back to the front to relax"
"THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT"
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!"
"When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!" | |
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12-03-2007, 05:06 PM
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#52 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,469
Country: | Good post, Lucky.
It seems to me that comparisons between the Gripen and EF are comparing apples and oranges. This is like comparing the F-16 vs F-15. Both are excellent planes in their own right, but each holds its own niche. One is an air superiority fighter, while the other is a multi-role aircraft with completely different development requirements. Can't fault either. To make a choice in combat would require operational scenarios.
Perhaps Eurofighter vs Gripen, head-on, at 200nm? Now that I would give to EF. 
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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12-09-2007, 11:44 AM
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#53 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,778
| IMO the EuroFighter is the very best fighter in the air today.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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12-09-2007, 12:46 PM
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#54 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Zlin, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,359
Country:  | Czech Air forces betted on Jas-39. 
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Roman Susil
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...a friend of Joe Owsianik,So. Plainfield, NJ, a former left waist gunner from B-17G ''Tail End Charlie" from 2ndBG,20th Sqdn, that was forced to bail out on Aug. 29th, 1944 over my country. | |
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12-09-2007, 01:04 PM
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#55 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,828
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by Soren  IMO the EuroFighter is the very best fighter in the air today. | I would agree with you but now that the F-22 has entered service my vote goes to the Raptor.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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12-09-2007, 01:17 PM
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#56 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,778
| The F-22 definitely has its advantages, however IMO the EuroFighter is a slightly better fighter. The EF features extreme agility because of its excellent aerodynamics, while the Raptor has its great agility by virtue of its thrust vectoring. The EF features the most advanced pilot's interface in the world, and EF pilots have available the best G-suit in the world as-well.
Its a hard choice, but since the EF is also cheaper to produce I'd go for it.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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12-09-2007, 01:36 PM
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#57 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,828
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Soren The EF features the most advanced pilot's interface in the world, and EF pilots have available the best G-suit in the world as-well. | Can you show proof for both of these please? Quote: |
Originally Posted by Soren Its a hard choice, but since the EF is also cheaper to produce I'd go for it. | Not by much.
The F-22 cost $137 million to produce.
The Eurofighter costs aprox. $128 million to produce.
At that cost it really does not matter.
Besides if the Dollar keeps dropping the EF will soon over take it in cost.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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12-09-2007, 03:55 PM
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#58 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,778
|
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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12-09-2007, 06:10 PM
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#59 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,828
Country: | Thanks for the links Soren, but I dont see how it can be compared to the F-22s systems when the majority of it is still classified.
I just dont see a Typhoon besting a F-22.
Typhoon is a great aircraft though. Dont take me wrong.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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12-09-2007, 06:29 PM
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#60 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,231
Country: | I think the Eurofighter might have a more capable strike ability from what I've read, but in it's original element (air-to-air) I believe the F-22 is the most advanced and capable combat aircraft in the world today.
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