Which jet was better, the Me 262 or the Gloster Meteor?

[cheddar cheese]

Me-262 has it on performance...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed to both of you. I really think it would have been interesting to have had a Meteor and a Me-262 battle to go off of. It would have been the battle of the heavy weights.

[delcyros]

The MK-III would be somwhat outclassed by the Me-262. It has such a low powerload and overall performance. The handling advantage of the Meteor-III is somehow questionable, also. Galland flew a Meteor in Argentinia and he was impressed by it´s acceleration (FMK IV or later) but disappointed by it´s handling compared to the Me-262.
The Meteor MK-IV with Dervent V engines on the other hand is a much better contender: better acceleration, better powerload in the end better level speed. The Me-262 A could still disappear while entering a dive but all in all I see some advance for the Meteor MK-IV. In the timeframe of the MK-IV (introducing in very late 1945) we would also see some advances for the Me-262 but this is going off topic.
To the engines I also want to underline that you have to look closer WHAT engines are meaned in the Me-262.
The Jumo-004A engines for example, build with a higher degree of spare metals has an average lifetime of 50 hours. It´s quantity is neglectable (something between 10 and 15 Me-262 have been equipped with these jet engines).
The Jumo-004B 1/B-2 are prone to be very sensitive against rapid throttle setting changes, they also have only 820, resp. 840 Kp thrust output. Average lifetime is around 10 hours. A majority of the Me-262 till dec. 44 have been produced with these engines. Just to counter some generalizations.
The Jumo-004 B-3 jet engine has a higher thrust setting by some slightly increasing in distribution of additional air to the turbine blades (allowing a higher turbine temp.), resulting in an increase in power output to 890 Kp static thrust. These engine are also sensitive to trhottle setting change and have a average lifetime of 20 hours. After 20 hours the engines are taken back for excamination, if they are okey, they can be operated for additional 10 hours. Most 1945 produced Me-262 have -004B-3/B-4 jet engines. The Jumo-004 B-4 jet engines are more simplified for serial production but based on the B-3 with same performances and shortcomings.
The Jumo-004 D-0/-1 jet engines have an increased air intake and are made by new, more heat resistant alloys, increasing both, lifetime and thrust output. While still sensitive to rapid throttle settings, flame outs by slipping maneuvres are not that common, thrust is increased to 940 Kp and lifetime to + 50 hours. The -004 D was tested by some Ar-234 and Me-262 prototypes and went into serial production at feb. 1945, it is not known if , beside of a few prototypes, serial Me-262 have ever been equipped with -004D jet engines.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Do you have any other info on his stay in Argentina. I know it was Kurt Tank that convinced President Peron to bring him over and that the Argentine Airforce was still using his tactics that he tought them in the Falklands War with great sucess dispite the fact that they lost the war. What I would love to see though is a full report on his thoughts of the Meteor. I have not been able to find anything like this.

[plan_D]

Great success? The Argentinian Air Force were battered in the Falklands, no single Royal Navy aircraft was lost to enemy air action. The only reason the Argentinians achieved some victories over British ships was because of the faulty equipment (Rapiers were bouncing off aircraft) and the distance at which Britain was operating compared to Argentina.

Argentina got slaughtered in the air, land and sea.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I dont know about that they did manage to hit some ships. When I say great success look at what they did against a force like the Royal Navy.

[plan_D]

Yes, they managed to hit a few ships. That doesn't mean success since their Navy got a kicking, they didn't stop the Royal Navy, their Air force was smashed to pieces and they became bankrupt.

The Royal Navy was hit due to a few command failures, faulty equipment AND the situation. Those ships had to sit there, in the open while the troops were off loaded on to the islands. Meanwhile, all that was able to defend the ships were Royal Navy Sea Harriers.

[FLYBOYJ]

Actually D, the Argies hit many ships but nothing happened, many of the bombs carried on the A-4s didn't go off. I met an Argie A-4 driver when he was picking up A-4s modified by Lockheed several years ago. He said more than 75% of the free fall bombs used by them were defective.

[plan_D]

So? That means nothing, one bomb won't blow a ship to pieces. It was the exorcets that did the damage, not bombs. The Argies were no match, and the RAF didn't even have combat aircraft down there, it was all Sea Harriers.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I never said they were successful in stopping the British. I said they had quite some success with there tactics. That they lost is true and that they lost badly is true.

[plan_D]

Sorry, I just don't get it. They could fly planes, I suppose...

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by plan_D

So? That means nothing, one bomb won't blow a ship to pieces. It was the exorcets that did the damage, not bombs. The Argies were no match, and the RAF didn't even have combat aircraft down there, it was all Sea Harriers.

You're right - but had those bombs would of worked, there would of been many more British causalities, but ultimately the Brits would of won, no dispute there.

The Argies got waxed, no questions there, but those guys who flew the A-4s did well and had some major "Huevos."

[plan_D]

They also had the cheek to kick up a fuss when H.M.S Conqueror sunk their precious Cruiser Belgrano outside of the exclusion zone the Royal Navy had set up!

That being the last time a Royal Navy vessel sailed into port with the Jolly Roger flying.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by plan_D

They also had the cheek to kick up a fuss when H.M.S Conqueror sunk their precious Cruiser Belgrano outside of the exclusion zone the Royal Navy had set up!

That being the last time a Royal Navy vessel sailed into port with the Jolly Roger flying.

Yep - Formally the USS Phoenix!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I did not know it was a former US Navy ship but the Jolly Roger Flag was great! And yes Plan_D there was no dispute that the British was not going to win the conflict, it was a given they would.