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02-26-2006, 02:20 AM
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#76 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: George - South Africa
Posts: 2,434
Country:  | The Me-262 comes up top here.
Henk
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02-27-2006, 07:07 AM
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#77 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country:  | and the Me-262 would be easier to maintain as the engines are faired into the wing, there wasnt much difference in the reliability of jet engines for both sides
__________________  "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland"  | |
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02-27-2006, 08:25 AM
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#78 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | it's generally accepted that the Meteor was more reliable and more manouverable, but, apart from looking better they're the only real advantages over the -262............
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02-27-2006, 09:21 AM
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#79 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,662
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass it's generally accepted that the Meteor was more reliable and more manouverable, but, apart from looking better they're the only real advantages over the -262............ | Agree, although the -262 was superior the early Meteors had a RR Welland, The Wellands had 180 hours between overhauls. The Jumo 004, entering service only a few weeks earlier, was rated for only 10 hours.
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02-27-2006, 09:30 AM
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#80 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 210
| Wasn't the 262 faster? However, I would prefer a Meteor as the 262 had rubbish turn capability | |
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03-02-2006, 01:54 AM
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#81 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,854
Country:  | The Me-262's engines were only good for about 10 hours, but overall I believe it was better than the Meteor. Atleast the early versions of the Meteor. Later on the Meteor probably overtook the Me-262 but by that time the Germans had other aircraft in the works and ready to fly like the Me P.1011 and the Ta-183 which completly would have outclassed the Meteor.
As for which looked better, the 262 clearly looked better. It was more streamlined and shark looking.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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03-03-2006, 03:57 PM
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#82 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin (Kreuzberg)
Posts: 1,481
| From what I have seen, the 10 hours belong to the Jumo-004B2 only. The 1945 usually fitted Jumo-004 B3 had 25 hrs. the late Jumo-004B4 and D4 both around 50 hrs. In opposition to this the BMW-003 E had 200 hrs! But it is also a question of numbers. the Jumo-004 was produced in a number of between 5.000 and 7.000 units by wars end (Sources differ). This is a lot of redundance compared to the 600 Wellands and 800 BMW-003...
I do personally not believe that the Meteor ever overtook the Me-262 during ww2 (and even if you enleghten the szenario) in technical development. Both, the MK I and MK III were inferior to the Me-262 in an one on one engagement. The post war MK-IV was great but for a nearly doubled poweroutput. I ask what speed the Me-262 could develop by this thrust potential! The improvements for the Me-262 also included plans for more wingsweep (a 30 degrees swept back winged Me-262 was completed in march 45, a 45 degrees one was planed for mid 45), which never were included for the Meteor program. This is what makes me feel the Meteor wasnīt able to deal with the Messers.
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03-07-2006, 12:03 AM
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#83 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,854
Country: | I will actually agree with you delcyros, atleast with the points that you made there.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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03-07-2006, 06:46 PM
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#84 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin (Kreuzberg)
Posts: 1,481
| Jet propulsion alone doesnīt make a good fighter plane. The Meteor suffered badly from the fascination of itīs designer for thick airfoils (as to be seen in the Typhoon/Tempest).
This turns her into a poor high speed fighter. Jet propulsion allows faster speeds (and controll at high speeds) but the airfoil and general wing design offsets this partly. The result is a much lower critical Mach number than itīs contemporary opponents (Me-262, Me-162, He-162, even the Ar-234). The Meteor is superior at low speed handling but inferior in high speed handling and those jets arenīt designed for low speed engagements!
This may show the most striking advantage of the Me-262, Messerschmidt did not only introduced jet propulsion but also a sophisticated airfoil and wing layout to the -262 (for the swept wing part accidently), which contributed a lot to itīs superior development potential.
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03-11-2006, 05:02 AM
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#85 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country: | the tempest was a typhoon with a thin wing
Soviet post-war jet technology came from the Germans yeah, the feared MiG-15 came from the Ta 183
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
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03-11-2006, 03:32 PM
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#86 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: George - South Africa
Posts: 2,434
Country: | It is realy a fact that the Russian did not have any jet technolagy and thus every captured German jet were used to make their own. If you take the Sukhoi Su-9 were a jazzed up Me-262.
They also used a lot of Jomu 004 engines in their first aircraft.
Henk
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The ultimate revolution in aircraft designs during WW2 | |
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03-11-2006, 03:56 PM
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#87 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin (Kreuzberg)
Posts: 1,481
|  Quote: |
the feared MiG-15 came from the Ta 183
| Another urban myth... we already have discussed this in the best jet poll in detail. The MiG-15 benefitted from very general, preliminary design layout. It surely isnīt a descendent of the Ta-183. It is indeed a ingenious soviet design.
The Tempest still had a thick airfoil if you compare it with a spit XIV.
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03-11-2006, 04:03 PM
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#88 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: George - South Africa
Posts: 2,434
Country: | I have also heard that it is just a urban myth. I do not know so much about that one.
The thing is the russians realy wanted to catch up with the rest of the world when the west got most of the German technolagy and also perfected theirs.
The whole world got ahead thanks to the Germans.
Henk
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The ultimate revolution in aircraft designs during WW2 | |
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03-13-2006, 06:46 AM
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#89 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country: | yeah THANK THEM FOR BETTER MASS DESTRUCTION WOOHOOO!!!!
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
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03-13-2006, 01:54 PM
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#90 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,854
Country: | Okay that was dumb loomaluftwaffe.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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