 | 
01-13-2006, 03:09 PM
|
#136 | | World Traveler
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,751
Country:  | Good extra info there pbfoot, would love to be able to hear some more from the contacts you have.
__________________  "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
Sir Winston Churchill
"To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today"
Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London
Moderator WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum
My Photo Collections on Flickr
| 
|  | |
01-13-2006, 10:35 PM
|
#137 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Japan
Posts: 451
| Just an idle wonder: if the B-24 and the Lancaster were to switch production facilities, would we have seen 18,000 Lancasters produced, or one made every hour, given a similar level of manpower and supply? | |
| | |
01-13-2006, 10:40 PM
|
#138 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Just an idle wonder: if the B-24 and the Lancaster were to switch production facilities, would we have seen 18,000 Lancasters produced, or one made every hour, given a similar level of manpower and supply? | There is no doubt in my mind that could of been done! It's commendable that the 7500 Lancs were built considering the conditions endured by the UK during WW2...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
| | |
01-13-2006, 11:08 PM
|
#139 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Probably could have built that many.
But only putting out 7500 Lancs isnt much of an achievement at all. The Germans showed that production could be decentralized and yet output could go way up.
Either the UK production engineers werent daring enough to think of ways to boost production, or maybe the RAF was wasting its aviation production capability on trying to build too many different types of planes.
__________________
"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
| | |
01-13-2006, 11:13 PM
|
#140 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,306
Country: | Good stuff pb...
__________________  "After That Second Kill, I Knew It Was Time To Get The Hell Outta There..."-- Lt. William Northrop Case
To See My IL2 Sturmovik Video Tribute to My Grandfather, Click Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk | |
| | |
01-13-2006, 11:17 PM
|
#141 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Probably could have built that many.
But only putting out 7500 Lancs isnt much of an achievement at all. The Germans showed that production could be decentralized and yet output could go way up.
Either the UK production engineers werent daring enough to think of ways to boost production, or maybe the RAF was wasting its aviation production capability on trying to build too many different types of planes. | NO! They had these funny little planes with bent crosses on their tails flying over them dropping bombs, I think that might slow things down a bit! 
The Germans made no real attempt to seriously mass produce a plane like the Lancaster or the B-24, and dont count that flying disaster the -177 Grief!!!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
| | |
01-14-2006, 12:16 AM
|
#142 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Its only a matter of sub assembly's being bolted together.
Four one engined airplanes = a single four engined bomber
__________________
"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
| | |
01-14-2006, 12:24 AM
|
#143 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Its only a matter of sub assembly's being bolted together.
Four one engined airplanes = a single four engined bomber | BOLT TOGETHER?!? 
Have you ever witnesses two large aircraft sub assemblies go together?!? In some of the application you don't use rivets, you use a steel pin called a hi loc which needs to be precision drilled and swedged into place. You also need an assembly jig to hold everything together or else you build a crooked plane, you just don't "bolt together" a large aircraft!
Remember you hand build a bomber it takes over 200,000 manhours per plane, that's how long the first B-24s took to build if you put in you're example?!?
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
| | |
01-14-2006, 01:23 AM
|
#144 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| The rate per assembly went down to 15,000 or so for the whole thing. Call it bolting or riviting, it doesnt matter. If the aircraft is designed correctly, its just line up the jigs and start the assembly process.
Excuse me if I didnt specify that the sub assemblies had to be on jigs, there had to be people on hand to do the thing, the factory had to have some type of power turned on, there had to be a cup of coffee or tea brewing somewhere, blah blah blah, blah blah
The US proved it could be done quickly and there was no reason for the brits not to be able to do it. In some ways, they should have been able to do it faster than the US as all their production facilities were located near each other as compared to the US.
__________________
"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
| | |
01-14-2006, 05:57 AM
|
#145 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3
The US proved it could be done quickly and there was no reason for the Brits not to be able to do it. In some ways, they should have been able to do it faster than the US as all their production facilities were located near each other as compared to the US.
| Its called manpower and resources and they (the UK) didn't have it to the extent we did. Much of the aircraft manufacturing industry methodology was actually learned from them, we improved on it (willow run) by inviting automotive manufacturers into the situation and at the time the US was a world leader in that industry. They probably could of adopted some of the things we did built it would of meant shutting down a production line to incorporate those improvements, you don't do that if you're fighting for your life...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
| | |
01-14-2006, 11:58 AM
|
#146 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Even if they produced it in a more conventional manner, they still should have been able to boost production. Remember the US was never at full war emergency as the Brits were. They could move people and material around with far more ease.
__________________
"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
| | |
01-14-2006, 01:58 PM
|
#147 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Its only a matter of sub assembly's being bolted together.
Four one engined airplanes = a single four engined bomber | BOLT TOGETHER?!?
Have you ever witnesses two large aircraft sub assemblies go together?!? In some of the application you don't use rivets, you use a steel pin called a hi loc which needs to be precision drilled and swedged into place. You also need an assembly jig to hold everything together or else you build a crooked plane, you just don't "bolt together" a large aircraft!
Remember you hand build a bomber it takes over 200,000 manhours per plane, that's how long the first B-24s took to build if you put in you're example?!? | Oh and dont forget to mention that it is not a Ford Car. Putting together an aicraft is precision work. I have been stating that over and over but it just does not sink in.
I think tomorrow I will take my Blackhawk apart and Bolt the Sub Assemblies back together because its easy!
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
| | |
01-14-2006, 03:40 PM
|
#148 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,878
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Probably could have built that many.
But only putting out 7500 Lancs isnt much of an achievement at all. The Germans showed that production could be decentralized and yet output could go way up.
. | I think you will find that Germany produced less aircraft than the UK in straight numbers and generally less complex aircraft.
4 engine aircraft UK around 16-17,000 Germany around 1000
We also out produced Germany in the first half of the war when we were nd definately on the defensive. The UK doesn't have to apologise for our ability to build under pressure. | |
| | |
01-14-2006, 03:43 PM
|
#149 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | I think Germany built more than a 1000 4 engine aircraft during the war. Not sure I might be wrong, I will have research this.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
| | |
01-15-2006, 03:13 PM
|
#150 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Even if they produced it in a more conventional manner, they still should have been able to boost production. Remember the US was never at full war emergency as the Brits were. They could move people and material around with far more ease. | Thety didn't have the people or resources!!!!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
| | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 AM. | | |
