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01-17-2006, 04:24 PM
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#211 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| It will take a few more hours as they need lunch and restroom breaks.
Back in the 80's at Chino, they had their newly aquired P38 on display "in pieces". The center section where the wings attached looked really complex to produce. It looked like they needed some huge pins to pound in to hold the thing together.
I remember they had some ex P38 mechanics and assemblers there to help show them how things fitted during assembly.
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01-17-2006, 04:48 PM
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#212 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 It will take a few more hours as they need lunch and restroom breaks. |   Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Back in the 80's at Chino, they had their newly aquired P38 on display "in pieces". The center section where the wings attached looked really complex to produce. It looked like they needed some huge pins to pound in to hold the thing together.
I remember they had some ex P38 mechanics and assemblers there to help show them how things fitted during assembly. | I heard from guys I worked with at Lockheed who was on ythe P-38 assembly line that it was a hard aircraft to produce, but eventually methods were developed to make things easier. These guys I worked with told me that never thought they'd produce more than 100 P-38s. Lockheed actually hired midgets to assemble the tail assemblies and paid them top dollar....
Lockheed ran 3 lines at Plant B-1 (which was located at the end of Van Owen Street in Burbank) and eventually moved a line in Building 304, Plant B-6, which was just east of the new contol tower.
From Lockheed... 
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01-17-2006, 05:30 PM
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#213 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
| I think the anticipated order size of the original P-38 contract was 66 planes so they were designed to be more or less hand built.
wmaxt | |
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01-17-2006, 05:31 PM
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#214 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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01-17-2006, 05:41 PM
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#215 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country:  | Good info up there FBJ. Basically that same concept is still how they make planes today (as you are full aware of). The technology changes but the concept is the same. I was looking at that crashed B-24 wing and realized how much that looks like my aircraft. Hi-locs and all.
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01-17-2006, 06:11 PM
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#216 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | Thanks Adler - the only "jump" from WW2 to today is composites, and even in an "all plastic plane" (ie the B-2) you still have Hi-locs and cherry max rivets all over the place.
I'm hoping to post some more numbers here within the next few days to get this topic back on track....
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01-17-2006, 06:23 PM
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#217 | | World Traveler
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
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Country:  | Good info FBJ.
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01-17-2006, 07:03 PM
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#218 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
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Originally Posted by Gnomey Good info FBJ. | It sure is. Great stuff. | |
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01-18-2006, 03:06 PM
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#219 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | I put together some numbers with a Lanc B.1 challenging a B-24J. Some of the numbers were extracted from various Internet sites and the Lancaster POH. When I did some calculations and conversions, some of the final results were quite interesting. If any one has anything to add or if there is an error here, let me know. Looking at this as a pilot, the Lanc had a heavier bomb load and way better power loading, and a lower stall and landing speed in all configurations. The B-24 was slightly faster, flew higher, and had a better rate of climb. If I had my choice, I'd take the Lancaster based on performance, I'd take the B-24 on armament and operational safety (2nd pilot). Over all, I think the Lancaster is still the superior bomber aircraft based on its ability to carry bombs to a target, its ability to house numerous electronic aids, its ability to be modified and finally its longevity. Keep in mind, this is a comparison of an early Lanc to a late model B-24!!!
Sorry for the small text, it was the only way I could get all the data on the sheet and then be able to post.... 
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01-18-2006, 03:27 PM
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#220 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Great data.
Still a tie for me. The Lancs superior range and payload offset by the B24's better defensive armorment and two pilot setup.
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01-18-2006, 03:35 PM
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#221 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | Here's the excel spread sheet....
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01-18-2006, 03:38 PM
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#222 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Originally Posted by syscom3 Great data.
Still a tie for me. The Lancs superior range and payload offset by the B24's better defensive armorment and two pilot setup. | You're opinion - I agree about the 2 pilot set up but the primary purpose here was to drop bombs. 
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01-18-2006, 04:15 PM
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#223 | | World Traveler
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
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Country: | And the Lanc was more efficient at it and so gets my vote...
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01-18-2006, 04:29 PM
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#224 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | What's interesting is the Lancaster's higher power loading. I would guess this gave the Lanc better acceleration and maneuvability, many of the other categories both aircraft were almost a dead match. The Lanc lands slower, a major safety plus, but it's a tail dragger, a bit harder to fly than a "trike" configuration. The -24 had the nose gear but landed like a bat out of hell, especially when heavy, a major issue, especially with "green" pilots.
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01-18-2006, 04:39 PM
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#225 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| The wing loading was similar too. Thats the most surprising thing I saw. I figured the lanc with its big wings would have a lower loading.
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