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01-01-2006, 02:24 PM
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#16 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country:  | Thankyou NS, I am glad that there are other people with common sense as well. 
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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01-01-2006, 03:26 PM
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#17 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Thankyou NS, I am glad that there are other people with common sense as well. | You're talking about me? Hmmm. Interesting thought.   | |
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01-01-2006, 03:30 PM
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#18 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | i said i didn't want to turn this into annother slugging match between me and sys, however if he would like to engage me in a separate thread about which was more versatile, the lanc or the B-24, i would be more than glad to, infact, i think i'll go start one now! and i'm glad i'm not the only one to see the fact that i'm arguing with a different varient of a plane so he's using a completely different plane as crazy and stupid
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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01-01-2006, 03:47 PM
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#19 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,012
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ 7377 Lancasters were built including the ones built in Canada (430). I don't see where the Lanc had a manufacturing challenge when compared to the B-24. | Perhaps not. Untill we see some manufacturing time data for the Lanc, then the B24 wins | From Wikipedia
The majority of Lancasters during the war years were manufactured by Metropolitan-Vickers, Armstrong Whitworth and Avro. The plane was also produced at the Austin Motor Company works in Longbridge, Birmingham later in World War II. Only 300 of the Lancaster Mk II with Bristol Hercules engines were made. The Lancaster Mk III had newer Merlin engines but was otherwise identical to earlier versions; 3,030 Mk IIIs were built, almost all at A.V. Roe's Newton Heath factory. Of later versions only the Canadian-built Lancaster Mk X was produced in any numbers, built by Victory Aircraft in Malton, Ontario, 430 of this type were built. They differed little from earlier versions, except for using Packard-built Merlin engines and having a differently configured mid-upper turret. 7,377 Lancasters of all marks were built over the war; a 1943 Lancaster cost £45-50,000. Quote: |
The B-24 was produced in massive numbers due to the people and resources available.
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Originally Posted by syscom3 If thats true, why was the B24 built more efficently and faster than the B17? | Because unlike Lockheed, Douglas and Boeing who built their subassemblies in "segments" and moved them to various parts of the plants for assembly, Consolidated teamed with former automobile manufacturers who developed automotive type production lines for the B-24 where the whole line moved, that why Willow Run, Fort Worth and the Old plant in San Diego are so long. Henry Ford's VP of production (his name escapes me) assisted in setting up Willow run and several other Consolidated facilities. Although achieving numbers, Lockheed Boeing and Douglas for the most part did not adopt this on their 4 engine bomber programs and stayed conventional.
Lockheed did adopt this assembly methodology on the P-38 line being produced in Burbank plant B-1. The line had a steam driven chain that actually moved the entire line of aircraft being assembled. Quote: |
Don't forget the first Lancaster flew January 1941, the B-24 was already in production.
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Originally Posted by syscom3 The B24's production didnt ramp up untill 1943. Remember many of the plants that were to build the planes were still being constructed in 1942. | Ramp up? By 1943 there were several hundered B-24s in service, 177 attacked Ploesti in August 1942, the Lancaster first models were't deliveered to squadron until April 1942. What happened in 43 was willow run put the production into "overdrive."
For the Brits to build almost 7,000 Lancaster's is a commendable feat. they did not have the manpower or resources like we had here in the states and also maintained the "segment " production methodology....
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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01-01-2006, 09:21 PM
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#20 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,012
Country: | Some Photos - the top one is Plant A1, Lockheed Burbank - not all the sub assemblies
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01-01-2006, 09:24 PM
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#21 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,012
Country: | Here's the Lancaster, notice all the subassemblies like Lockheed.....
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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01-01-2006, 09:27 PM
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#22 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country: | Can I pick the one I want? | |
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01-01-2006, 09:29 PM
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#23 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,143
| Wasnt Ploesti in 1943?
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
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01-01-2006, 09:34 PM
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#24 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,012
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Nonskimmer Can I pick the one I want? | If you accept bare aluminum, you could have on in 58 minutes...
Here's another photo of williow run, note how the sub assemblies come together on a really long production line, "segments" aren't set aside, other heavy bomber production lines were probably 1/4 of the size of willow run...
Notice the overhead conveyor inserting fuselage sections along the assembly line.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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01-01-2006, 09:36 PM
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#25 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,012
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Wasnt Ploesti in 1943? | you're right
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01-01-2006, 09:55 PM
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#26 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,012
Country: | The first raid was in 1942 - 13 aircraft participated from Egypt....
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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01-01-2006, 09:59 PM
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#27 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,143
| Operation tidal wave was on Aug 1 1943.
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
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01-01-2006, 10:18 PM
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#28 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,012
Country: | By Sept 1942, at least 300 B-24s were already built and being delivered or already deployed - Consolidated SD and Douglas Tulsa... http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1941_2.html
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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01-03-2006, 12:36 PM
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#29 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,998
Country: | I see this is as an almost endless debate gentlemen, the B-24 used in the day role primarily and the Lanc used in the evening role primarily. Both needed Allied escorts in the day time or they were sitting ducks, the historical archival reports testify to this. the Lanc could fly the higher altitudes and the B-24 was used under the B-17 altitude for the miles strung out to clobber the Reich by day. maybe it would be better to compare the B-24 vs the Halibag ? Ask a vet which a/c was better and they will ALL TELL YOU it was the craft they flew in.
both could take a bit of punishment and then both could also be carved like a hot knife to butter | |
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01-04-2006, 12:18 PM
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#30 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Erich Ask a vet which a/c was better and they will ALL TELL YOU it was the craft they flew in.
| Very Very true.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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