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01-23-2006, 05:46 PM
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#316 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,823
Country:  | Thanks Guys, I got more coming this week (I hope)...
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01-25-2006, 04:45 PM
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#317 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
| Remember to, the bombers had effective fighter escort almost from the first in the PTO.
wmaxt | |
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01-25-2006, 05:25 PM
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#318 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,823
Country: | During heavy bomber operations around Rabual, New Guinea, and New Ireland, the Japanese were able to field a sizable contingent of aircraft from JAAF and IJN. By this time the P-38 had made its entry and began its decimation of the JAAF and IJN. While the USAAF had the luxury of escorts for much of their operations, the Japanese never developed a good strategy for dealing with heavy bombers, they couldn't figure out how to regain air supremacy!
I think it was a matter of tactics and the P-38 that rendered JAAF and IJN interception of heavy bombers ineffective. In keeping on topic, I think the Lancaster, if placed in the same situation WOULD OF came out about the same....
Here's a great site documenting much of this action during 1943 and into 1944 http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/r...48th/248th.htm
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01-25-2006, 05:26 PM
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#319 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,607
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Remember to, the bombers had effective fighter escort almost from the first in the PTO.
wmaxt | The bombers had little if any escort at all, untill the P38's and F4U's came about.
Remember the ranges needed to fly in the PTO. 500 - 1000 mile missions were the norm.
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01-25-2006, 05:39 PM
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#320 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Remember to, the bombers had effective fighter escort almost from the first in the PTO.
wmaxt | The bombers had little if any escort at all, untill the P38's and F4U's came about.
Remember the ranges needed to fly in the PTO. 500 - 1000 mile missions were the norm. | There was little heavy bomber activity in the PTO (Token B-17 raids) until 1943. By that time the B-24 and P-38 were on scene.
Marine F4Us didn't start heavy bomber escort mission until early 1943. I believe VMF-122 and VMF-124 was one of the first squadrons to participate in B-24 escort missions.
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01-26-2006, 02:52 AM
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#321 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,527
Country:  | Thanks for the site FBJ.
One also has to remember until the Island Hopping Campaign really got going, there were no places to really launch bombers from.
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01-26-2006, 09:26 AM
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#322 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | Yep, and I think that's why the medium bomber and tactical applications were favored...
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01-26-2006, 09:38 AM
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#323 | | World Traveler
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Country:  | Agreed FBJ, they also required shorter runways and so could be up and running quicker as they could run from shorter more primitive strips.
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01-26-2006, 11:01 AM
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#324 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,607
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Thanks for the site FBJ.
One also has to remember until the Island Hopping Campaign really got going, there were no places to really launch bombers from. | Not true.
The few heavy bombers groups available in all of 1942 were based in Australia, New Guinie, New Caledonia, CBI, and Aleutions.
Fortunatley for the allies, the US had developed enough airfields along several islands between Hawaii and Australia to allow the heavy and medium bombers to fly from one island to the next.
What held up operations in the first half of 1942 was the lack of bombers and crews to be everywhere. Priorities dictated that the bombers be held in Hawaii, or sent to the SW Pacific. Plus, even though many of the islands had airfields to allow an orderly transit of aircraft, they didnt have the facilities at the time to support bombing activities.
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01-26-2006, 11:05 AM
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#325 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Yep, and I think that's why the medium bomber and tactical applications were favored... | I was looking at a list of all the bomber groups deployed in the 5th, 7th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 14th AF's and there were actually more heavy bomber groups than medium and light groups.
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01-26-2006, 11:13 AM
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#326 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Originally Posted by syscom3 Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Yep, and I think that's why the medium bomber and tactical applications were favored... | I was looking at a list of all the bomber groups deployed in the 5th, 7th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 14th AF's and there were actually more heavy bomber groups than medium and light groups. | What years?
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01-26-2006, 11:22 AM
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#327 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
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| Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Remember to, the bombers had effective fighter escort almost from the first in the PTO.
wmaxt | The bombers had little if any escort at all, untill the P38's and F4U's came about.
Remember the ranges needed to fly in the PTO. 500 - 1000 mile missions were the norm. | There was little heavy bomber activity in the PTO (Token B-17 raids) until 1943. By that time the B-24 and P-38 were on scene.
Marine F4Us didn't start heavy bomber escort mission until early 1943. I believe VMF-122 and VMF-124 was one of the first squadrons to participate in B-24 escort missions. | The US had three heavy bomber groups in the SW Pacific by the end of 1942, one in the CBI and one in the aleutions. That doesnt count the one or two held back in Hawaii.
The B17 group operating in the SW Pacific since the start of the war were flying regular missions every day, although it was sub-squadron size. Remember B17's were quite involved in the Guadalcanal campaign flying out of New Caledonia and Townsville/Port Moresby
The first B24 group to get out to NG was the 90th "Jolly Rogers". They started operations in Oct 1942.
The P38's getting out to the 5th and 13th AF were really not in force untill Feb or March 1943. Even though they had been around for awhile, maintanence problems meant there were only a few available each day. It didnt help too that most P38's sent to this area at first were the F5 photo jobs.
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01-26-2006, 11:31 AM
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#328 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | In the Early PTO years there were between 6 and 7 heavy Bomber Groups, and about 5 and 6 Medium/ Light, FEAF.
From April - July 1942 medium and light bombers actually dropped more bombs than heavies (more sorties flown). By Mid 1943 the heavies started making their precence known, my belief is the availibilty of aircraft and airfields to operat out of. http://www.usaaf.net/digest/t146.htm
There were only 21 pacific Island Bases in 1942, 65 in 1943 and 100 by the end of 1944
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01-26-2006, 11:56 AM
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#329 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by syscom3 The P38's getting out to the 5th and 13th AF were really not in force untill Feb or March 1943. Even though they had been around for awhile, maintanence problems meant there were only a few available each day. It didnt help too that most P38's sent to this area at first were the F5 photo jobs. | Try Oct - Dec 1942, and what data do you have about P-38 maintenance problems? Combat sorties in the FEAF Jumped by 200 from Sept. to Oct., 1942! Why? P-38s! June 1942 the 39th FS received their first P-38s, they were combat ready by the end of Sept/ beginning of October.
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01-26-2006, 11:21 PM
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#330 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,607
| This is a listing of the BG's used throughout the Pacific Theater.
If I use a time period of late 1944, there are ten heavy bomber groups and nine light/medium groups.
This list is what was present in Spring 1945. This does not count B32 groups. The 5th and 13th AF combined into the FEAF but still retained their groups.
5th AF
3rd BG A20/B25
22nd BG B26/B24
38th BG B25
43rd BG B17/B24
90th BG B24
312nd BG A20
345th BG B25
380th BG B24
417 BG A20
7th AF
11 BG B24
30th BG B24
41st BG B25
319th BG A26
494th BG B24
11th AF
28th BG (composite)
13th AF
5th BG B24
42nd BG B25
307th BG B24
10th AF
7th BG B24
12 BG B25/A26
14th AF
308th BG
341st BG
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