Lancaster Vs. B-24

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by syscom3

I know all that.

I was just pointing out that the B17's and B24's operated from a variety of island bases throughout the war. As the AAF sent most BG's to Europe in 1942, the PTO (which includes the SW Pacific and CBI) had to wait untill the JCS made available a few BG's.

The lack of any heavy bombers in this part of the world was due to their non-availability, not because a lack of suitable airstrips.

I half agree, there were not many bases in the area. It was shown earlier that the amount of bases in the area doubled within a year and a half. At this point medium and light bombers were dropping more bombs than the heavies..

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

No one has mentioned the heavy Bomber units stationed in and around Darwin. As early as May 1942 B-17's of the 64th BS 43rdBG had conducted a few missions from Batchelor airstrip against shipping off Koepang and targets such as Penfoie airfield. However there was a high unserviceability rate of the B-17's due to a lack of maintenance facilities and spares.
Also in November 1942 B-26's of the 22nd BG were detached to Darwin from Queensland where they reinforced RAAF Hudsons. The B-26's were only deployed to the Darwin area for five days, but flew missions over Timor, particularly Dili, and managed to shoot down 6 Jap fighters.
1943 was however, the year the USAAF heavies really established themselves in the Darwin area. The 319thBS of the 90thBG arrived at Fenton on the 3rd Feb, to fulfill a requirement of reconnaisance on MacArthurs Southern Flank. The squadron flew 75 missions, 48 of them being recon, before they were joined by the 380th BG.
the 380th arrived at Fenton and Manbulloo on the 1st of June. The 528th and 530th sqaudrons went to Fenton while the 529th and 531st went to Manbulloo. Missions were flown immediately against enemy shipping and land targets on Timor, Celebes, BAli ,Java, Ceram, PNG and Borneo.
In January 1945 the 380th moved North to Mindoro ending 21 months of combat operations from Australia.

Good post Wildcat!

[syscom3]

Wildcat, ever hear of the book "King of the Heavies"?

Its a great book written about the 380th BG.

Although were far off topic here, Ive always thought that the RAF should have deployed a Lanc squadron here and the 5th AF deploy another B24 group and begin around the clock attacks on the oil fields in Borneo. If this was performed in middle 1943 and supported fully, then the war in the Pacific would have taken a different turn.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I half agree, there were not many bases in the area. It was shown earlier that the amount of bases in the area doubled within a year and a half. At this point medium and light bombers were dropping more bombs than the heavies..

I have to look at the stats closer. I cant open that statistics web page from home, so I will look at it when I'm at work.

[FLYBOYJ]

http://www.usaaf.net/digest/t146.htm

There were only 21 pacific Island Bases in 1942, 65 in 1943 and 100 by the end of 1944

[the lancaster kicks ass]

there would be no point in sending out such a small force, getting parts and replacements out there wouldn't be worth it in the RAF's eyes, in '43 there weren't enough lancs as it was, they were all needed to bomb germany back to the middle ages.......

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by syscom3

I know all that.

I was just pointing out that the B17's and B24's operated from a variety of island bases throughout the war. As the AAF sent most BG's to Europe in 1942, the PTO (which includes the SW Pacific and CBI) had to wait untill the JCS made available a few BG's.

The lack of any heavy bombers in this part of the world was due to their non-availability, not because a lack of suitable airstrips.

I have heard though, some pilots based on these islands would swear that when they would come in to land, the sharks would gather on the approach end waiting for an undershoot. After the plane crossed over the beach, they would swim to the other end and wait for an overshoot.

And what were they able to bomb of Mainland, Japan? Nothing. These bases that you are talking about coudl be used to bomb the Islands in the Island Hopping Campaign but not Mainland Japan. They had to take Islands first in order to do that.

[FLYBOYJ]

Yep, and this the point, the amount of bases tripled in a year. Sure there weren't many bombers to be had in mid 1942, but more importantly there was no place to stage them from. Although there were missions flown from Darwin, it wasn't until Guadalcanal and the Islands around it were secured. If you look at that site I posted it shows the tonnage of bombs dropped substantially increase into 1943 as more bases were built and more aircraft (primarily B-24) were deployed.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap, but next we will probably be discussing that if that had not changed we would have seen teh B-52 entering service in 1943, because that woudl have made it possible.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

although quite how this is to do with the original argument i don't know

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Good point.

[FLYBOYJ]

YEP!

[syscom3]

Never stop a thread if it goes into interesting new directions.

[FLYBOYJ]

YEP!

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by syscom3

Wildcat, ever hear of the book "King of the Heavies"?

Its a great book written about the 380th BG.

Although were far off topic here, Ive always thought that the RAF should have deployed a Lanc squadron here and the 5th AF deploy another B24 group and begin around the clock attacks on the oil fields in Borneo. If this was performed in middle 1943 and supported fully, then the war in the Pacific would have taken a different turn.

I haven't heard of that book Sys, sounds interesting though.

As for using Lancs in the Pacific, the Australian Government in 1943 laid plans to start local manufacture of the Lancaster. A pattern aircraft arrived in June that year, however there was a period of confusion as to how many and what model would be built. The Government finally decided to build Lincolns, which it did, but this was not decided until mid 1945!!
In the meantime however, Gen. George Kenney, decided that due to the vast amounts of Liberators being produced, the RAAF would be supplied with enough B-24's the equip 7 heavy bomber squadrons. The first Libs were delivered in Feb 1944 and went to 7OTU and shortly after that to no. 24 squadron. To gain experiance, RAAF aircrew were attached to the 380th BG in New Guinea for conversion and operational training. Due to delivery delays, the remaining squadrons weren't operational until Jan 1945.
Nos. 21, 23,and 24 squadrons operated as no. 82 bomber wing which played an important part in the Borneo campaign along side the USAAF.
Whats interesting with the Borneo campaign is the Balikpapan operation, in which general orders stated "seize and occupy the Balikpapan, Borneo, area, establish naval, air and logistics facilities and conserve petrolium producing and processing insallations therein.." This seemed to be ignored however, because Balikpapan was virtually blown off the map due to heavy bombing raids and naval gunfire! The Dutch Government (who owned it before the Japs invaded) even complained that the bombardment of Balikpapan was way too excessive and caused unnecessary damage!
Anyway the Lincolns replaced the 287 B-24's in RAAF service in 1948.