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01-30-2006, 02:16 AM
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#361 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country:  | Great info Wildcat!
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01-30-2006, 06:36 AM
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#362 | | World Traveler
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,751
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Great info Wildcat! | Agreed.
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01-30-2006, 03:01 PM
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#363 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Never stop a thread if it goes into interesting new directions. | Ill agree with that also.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-13-2006, 10:43 PM
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#364 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Zealand
Posts: 636
Country:  | Hi all.
Why does an argument ALWAYS start when comparing the Lancaster to some other WW2 heavy four-engine bomber?? I mean, all WW2 bombers each made a contribution to the war effort, and helped end the war.
James.
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10-14-2006, 11:53 AM
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#365 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | If you read all the threads you would see why?
These arguments are very informative actually and everyone learns from them as well. Both sides of the arguments learn from them.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-14-2006, 02:10 PM
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#366 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | Quote: |
Why does an argument ALWAYS start when comparing the Lancaster to some other WW2 heavy four-engine bomber??
| it's normally either mine or syscom's fault  but na i quite enjoy our debates on the subject............
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10-14-2006, 02:22 PM
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#367 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Its because theres no doubt the Lancaster deserves to be ranked #3 or #2.
The B29 was magnitudes better than any other WW2 bomber, so why rank the B17/24/Lanc against the best bomber of WW2?
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10-14-2006, 04:08 PM
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#368 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 795
Country: | OK, so what about the B-17 vs the Mossie? You know AVM Don Bennett's comments to Mrs Ogden Reid of the New York Herald Tribune while watching Mosquito bombers taking off:
Mrs R: I guess it's the usual milk run to Berlin. Tell me, what is their bomb load?
DB: The Mosquito bombers carry a 4,000lb Blockbuster to Berlin.
Mrs R: And what do the B-17 Flying Fortresses carry to Berlin?
DB. At present...they are carrying3,500lbs. In any case, they cannot carry a blockbuster as it is too large for their bomb bays.
Mrs R: I only hope that the American public never realizes those facts.
("Pathfinder", AVM Don Bennett, CB, CBE, DSO)
Later in the same book, he compares the Mossie to the Lanc:
"A Mosquito carried a little over half the bomb load of a Lancaster to Berlin.Its casualty rate was about 1/10th that of the Lancaster.Its cost was 1/3rd of the Lancaster, and it carried two people in its crew instead of seven...value for war effort was well on the side of the Mosquito compared to any other aircraft ever produced..."
The only real advantage of the heavies was range, and in Europe at least, there was not much that a Mossie couldn't do.
Best bomber of WW2?
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10-14-2006, 04:33 PM
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#369 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by ndicki 
Best bomber of WW2?
| B-29....
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10-15-2006, 09:01 AM
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#370 | | World Traveler
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,751
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ B-29... | No question about that.
__________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
Sir Winston Churchill
"To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today"
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Moderator WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum
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10-15-2006, 10:13 AM
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#371 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 795
Country: | I utterly disagree; the only serious advantage the B-29 (or any other heavy) had over the Mossie was range.
Chew on this:
How many Mossies could you build for the cost of one B-29?
How does the bomb load in tonnage compare for that sum of money spent?
What is the difference in price, ie manpower, resources, time and money, of training a B-29 crew compared to a Mossie's?
What is the degree of survivability of each?
What is the cost in terms of gallons per ton of bombs delivered?
Can B-29s operate with the same degree of precision which reduces the liklihood of having to return to the target again?
Do B-29s need fighter escort? What is the added cost of that?
I could go on.
Big aircraft just make big targets.
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10-15-2006, 11:02 AM
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#372 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | While I surely understand and can somewhat agree with you, the Mossie can not put down the tonnage that the B-29 can, nor can it carry the large size of bombs that the B-29 can including the A-Bomb.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-15-2006, 11:35 AM
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#373 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| The mossie did not carry the sophisticated navigation eqmt that the B29 had.
Nor did it have the payload and range.
Nor did the mossie have the survivablity of receiving damage like the B29/B24/B17 and Lancaster had. Big airplanes meant more tolerance to damage.
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10-15-2006, 11:57 AM
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#374 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
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Originally Posted by ndicki I utterly disagree; the only serious advantage the B-29 (or any other heavy) had over the Mossie was range.
Chew on this:
How many Mossies could you build for the cost of one B-29?
How does the bomb load in tonnage compare for that sum of money spent?
What is the difference in price, ie manpower, resources, time and money, of training a B-29 crew compared to a Mossie's? | The B-29 had about a 10% loss rate through out its career and that includes Korea - its longevity is what give it the major edge over the Mossie the items you tried to point out, additionally the Mossie cold not carry the WMDs of the day. Bottom line, the Mossie didn't routinely carry 22,000 pounds of bombs. BTW - the B-29 was so good the RAF had to use it to close a "gap" in the early 50s.
Chew on this - the life expectancy of the airframe of a Mossie? If your lucky 5 years because of the wood structure. Wood doesn't do too well in changing climates unless the operator could hangar the aircraft - just ask the IAF who had to get rid of their Mossies because they were literary falling apart.
Wood doesn't get repaired that easy in the field - the more it's damaged, the weaker it gets.... Quote:
Originally Posted by ndicki What is the degree of survivability of each?
What is the cost in terms of gallons per ton of bombs delivered? | The B-29 entered the war in late 1944, here are the stats for very heavy bomber tonnage... United States Army Air Forces in World War II Quote:
Originally Posted by ndicki Can B-29s operate with the same degree of precision which reduces the liklihood of having to return to the target again? | Yes and it did over Japan and North Korea, at one point in both conflicts the aircraft was unstoppable.. Quote:
Originally Posted by ndicki Do B-29s need fighter escort? What is the added cost of that? | it depended on the the scenario. Sometimes they needed escorts, in Korea they were fored to operate at night but when they did they did not have escorts. Quote:
Originally Posted by ndicki I could go on.
Big aircraft just make big targets. | Technically, operationally, and strategically the B-29 was leaps and bound over the Mossie (and that's not taking anything away from it, it was a great aircraft). The B-29 was a complete weapons system and probably the fire control system was more advanced than the whole Mossie airframe. The bombing roles of each were different, but the B-29, even operated conventionally was a war winner, It leveled Japan (and I'm not even talking about the atomic bomb) and squashed communist forces in Korea to the point where they could not openly assemble a large military presence in their major cities.
Hands down the B-29 was the most effect and advanced bomber of WW2
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10-15-2006, 12:03 PM
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#375 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NIAGARA
Posts: 4,808
Country:  | 100% correct Joe but you forget the Brits didn't design or build the B29 so it can't be as good as the Mosquito
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