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10-28-2006, 09:59 AM
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#451 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country:  | Agreed with both things said by Lanc and Emac.
The arguements that you propose syscom have never proved anything and that has been said by everyone in this forum from myself, Lanc, FBJ,and now Emac.
They are just quatsch as Germans say it...
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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10-28-2006, 12:00 PM
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#452 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Quote: |
And if the Lincoln - and therefore the Shack - were already out of date before they even entered servoce, why did the RAF chuck the Washington at the first possible opportunity?
| Because of national pride.
And if you think the Lincoln was superior to the B29/B50, boy are you mistaken.
And so what about the Shackleford? Whoop de doo. The US had the B36 which was magnitudes better.
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10-28-2006, 12:03 PM
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#453 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Quote:
Originally Posted by ndicki  Actually, Lancs as a whole had a far better navigation and radar defence suite ( K2S, Gee, LORAN, Oboe, Monica, etc) than American aircraft because they had to navigate individually to the target and back, rather than in a big herd like the USAAF by day.
And if you feel that that somehow makes the Liberator a better crate, I really do not see why. | The USAAF ended up using them all. In 1945, some of them were standard installation for B24's going to the PTO.
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"
Last edited by syscom3 : 10-28-2006 at 12:13 PM.
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10-28-2006, 12:07 PM
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#454 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
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The failures happened because of the Curtiss electric propellers which would go flat during take off (many other aircraft had the same problem as the propeller hub was used on a wide variety of propeller models)
| Are you sure about the electric type props?
Only reference I've found is the use of Hamilton Standard hydraulic types.
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10-28-2006, 12:08 PM
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#455 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 Because of national pride. | Like you are the one talk here...  Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 And so what about the Shackleford? Whoop de doo. The US had the B36 which was magnitudes better. | And the discussion is about the B-24 and Lancaster which clearly the Lancaster is more superior.
Better range
Better performance
Bigger bombload
The disadvantages of the Lancaster are outweighed by the advantages.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-28-2006, 12:09 PM
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#456 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Quote:
Have you ever tried to deadreckon nave an aircraft in total darkness. It aint as easy as you think it is, especially when all the lights of the cities are blacked out.
Have some experience in the topic before you call something easy...
| I've had experince doing it.
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10-28-2006, 12:10 PM
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#457 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 I've had experince doing it. | Over Southern California? 
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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10-28-2006, 12:16 PM
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#458 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 Are you sure about the electric type props?
Only reference I've found is the use of Hamilton Standard hydraulic types. | Some early B-24s had Curtiss Electric Propellers (B-24 Es)
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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10-28-2006, 12:19 PM
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#459 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 I've had experince doing it. |
Yeah in a flight sim! That is no where near the same as the real thing buddy! You aint gonna die...
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-28-2006, 12:20 PM
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#460 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Quote: |
Like you are the one talk here... | The reason the B24 was better than the Lanc in the PTO has nothing to do with national pride. If it was true, then i would have said it was also better than the Lanc in the ETO. Quote:
And the discussion is about the B-24 and Lancaster which clearly the Lancaster is more superior.
Better range
Better performance
Bigger bombload
| Which in the PTO, was offset by the B24's advantage's.
Pilot/Copilot setup - which reduced workload on the long long missions and flying in to the expected crappy weather particular to that part of the world.
Better defensive firepower - which gave it a better chance than the Lanc to fend off the Japanese fighters.
Superior assembly techniques and times which enabled the plane to be built by the 10's of thousands.
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10-28-2006, 12:22 PM
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#461 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet
Yeah in a flight sim! That is no where near the same as the real thing buddy! You aint gonna die... | You keep making assumptions about that.
Ever heard of cross country plane rides in "cessna's?
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10-28-2006, 12:26 PM
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#462 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 Superior assembly techniques and times which enabled the plane to be built by the 10's of thousands. | Sys give it up, that 's been beat to death - Any WW2 aircraft if given the resources could of been produced like the B-24 and we shown that previously. the only reason why the B-24 was able to be produced in such quantities was the foresight of Rubin Fleet to team up with Ford and to have Charles Sorenson run the whole program....
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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10-28-2006, 12:54 PM
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#463 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 Which in the PTO, was offset by the B24's advantage's.
Pilot/Copilot setup - which reduced workload on the long long missions and flying in to the expected crappy weather particular to that part of the world. | Which if the Lanc had served in the PTO it would have been equipped with the second pilot station which was a rather easy modification for the Lanc. The Lanc did not serve in the PTO during the war as the B-24 did and therefore the only think we can truely use to compare the 2 aircraft is the ETO. Therefore the Lancaster is better than the B-24. Get over it. Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Better defensive firepower - which gave it a better chance than the Lanc to fend off the Japanese fighters. | The Lancaster did just fine in the ETO and the Luftwaffe fighters were much more of a threat than the Japanese fighters. Proven fact that the Luftwaffe had better tactics and better aircraft. Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Superior assembly techniques and times which enabled the plane to be built by the 10's of thousands. | As FBJ said it, you are beating the dead horse again because you have run out of arguements.
The B-24 was able to be built in larger numbers because of the US industrial capacity. That does not make the B-24 a better aircraft than the Lancaster when you are comparing the aircraft not the production methods!
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-28-2006, 12:55 PM
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#464 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3 You keep making assumptions about that.
Ever heard of cross country plane rides in "cessna's? | Yeah over California with lit up cities every mile.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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10-28-2006, 01:24 PM
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#465 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 795
Country:  | And that b*lls about superior firepower we've also already dealt with - the FE type Lancs carried .50 cal Brownings and even 20mm cannon in the MU turret.
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