M-14 or M-16?

schwarzpanzer · 08-03-2006, 05:25 PM

I don't know how anyone can like the SA80.

The AK74M isn't the newest, there's also the Abakan (AN94 IIRC?) and others.

2-round bursts - not a bad idea?

Also there's a new counterweight that is moved by the gas piston on somew models - reducing (or even cutting out completely!) recoil.

An SAS test of the AK74 said something like; 'on full-auto, the muzzle brake means the LoS doesn't shift'.

A lot of Russians issued with the AK74 have gone back to the AK47, for it's stopping power.

I like the G36 and Steyr AUG. They are also ambidexterous. The G36 is strangely comfortable, but certainly doesn't look it.

Has anyone got any info on the Corbon 5.56mm round please?

I think Fedorov's 6.5mm, which was the 1st intermediate cartridge, is probably the best size. The 2nd best would be the EM2's 7.7mm. The 3rd? - the 7.92 Kurz Patrone.

P38 Pilot · 08-06-2006, 04:49 PM

I voted for M-16. I haven't fired one, but from what I have heard, its a good weapon.

Personally, I have fired an AK-47 that belongs to my dad's cousin.(Its only semi...) Its a very good gun with some kick to it. It can get heavy when you have all the ammo, which is probably why I would prefer a -16 or M-4.

Les is right. Its a rugged weapon and is pretty good. Knockdown power is definetly a tribute in this rifle. But if were a soldier walking miles with heavy gear on me, I would want a rifle thats light weight, using more ammo in a magazine.

Also, I would want a rifle with less recoil so I could line up my shots.

plan_D · 08-06-2006, 05:31 PM

Apparently the Israeli operators like the AK-47 too. It was THE weapon to use when they attacked the Eygptian Green Island, because they came from under-water. They wanted a weapon that worked when they got out.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-07-2006, 01:49 AM

I did not find the AK-47 that bad when it came to recoil. There was practically no recoil. Maybe a bit more than the M-16 but not much.

It also was not very heavy in my opinion. Atleast no heavier than any other weapon of its class.

lesofprimus · 08-07-2006, 05:56 AM

Have to agree 100% with u there Adler....

P38 Pilot · 08-07-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I did not find the AK-47 that bad when it came to recoil. There was practically no recoil. Maybe a bit more than the M-16 but not much.

It also was not very heavy in my opinion. Atleast no heavier than any other weapon of its class.

Maybe I was it a was two years ago when I fired it. Ill have to see about firing it again sometime.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-07-2006, 04:42 PM

Maybe its because you are too small to fire it.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-07-2006, 04:43 PM

Just kidding P38.

Size really does not matter when shooting a rifle, it is how you hold it and your fireing techniques.

In basic training they go over so many of these things over and over and over again that you get so tired of it, but when the time comes to fire you dont even realize it and it almost feels natural or like a surprise that the weapon fired.

MacArther · 08-08-2006, 11:10 AM

Oy, I've fired a Paintball marker that has a pretty harsh reply, and I fired my friends .38 caliber pistol. Question is, how bad is a M-14 in recoil, cause I just love the Garand and its subsequent modifications and evolutions.

PS Anyone else seen the Italian variant of the Garand that looks like a M-14 but can have a skeleton stock and a grenade launcher?

Matt308 · 08-08-2006, 12:50 PM

As someone who owns AR-15 (20in), CAR-15 (16in), Springfield M1A (civie M14), Bulgarian AK, L1A1, Enfield, and has shot numerous others, I vote for CAR-15 (M4) if I had to carry it. However, M14 is still my favorite. You can't abuse these things enough. While none of these have severe recoil, I would say my AK with slant brake is the easiest to keep on target. The recoil is more like a long push and recoil is straight back with NO muzzle flip. In fact, I would love to see a slow mo video of this rifle firing, as I believe the muzzle break to be so efficient that I bet it actually dips down slightly. Not near as accurate as any of the other rifles however. But then again, for battle purposes within 200 yards any of them are utterly deadly in halfway competent hands.

Here is my latest lust. Just gotta convince myself I needs it and not just wants it.

MacArther · 08-08-2006, 03:00 PM

Gotta love the PDW, just cool and the round actually goes out quite a ways. I'll pull out my fire arms book and compare specs for the two discussed weapons, as well as throw in the PDW. The PDW with its 5.7mm round and small standard barrel goes past 200 meters, although the accurate range probably would not fall at the high end of the spectrum past 200 meters. The M-14 gets 800 plus meters easy. Finally, the
M-16A1 (the one listed in my book) gets a little over 500 meters. In compairison, the De Lisle Carbine of WW2 (one of my favorite weapons of all time) was getting a little over 400 meters on a .45 caliber cartrige, fired from the same magazine as the 1911 Colt, and all of this with a suppressor. The M-14 has a muzzle velocity of 595 mps (the Italian version, the M59 getting 823 mps with the 7.62mm NATO round), while the M-16 doubles it at 1000 mps, and the PDW is in the middle at 850 mps. The M-14 has a theoretical cyclic rate of 750 rpm, without allowance for a barrel change (which would be neccessary with that many bullets being fired). The M-16A1 has a rate of 800 rpm, also not allowing for cool down or barrel changing. The PDW has a variable rpm going from 800 to 1000 rpms. However, a truly monsterous RPM is achieved by the XM-214, which can be set to fire from 2000 to 10,000 rpm of NATO 5.56mm rounds. I would like the M-14 at longer ranges, because I could control my fire easier and "reach out at touch someone" ALOT better. Also, a 7.62 round will retain its kenetic energy better than a
5.56 NATO round ala objects with more mass retaining their velocity better and being harder to slow down (basic I think from "Objects in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon" theory). As per the size and weight problems, there would have eventually been a folding/skeleton stock version of the M-14 in the US inventory had it been around long enough as the primary infantry rifle. The M-16(A1 in this case) is better for close in brawls, although I would still be wary of the light round's stopping power. Personally, I'd take a PDW or the new Israeli battle rifle (supposedly as accurate as some bolt rifles at quite a good range, although I still haven't heard the caliber) in lieu of the M-16 if I could not get a M-14 or variant there of.

Matt308 · 08-08-2006, 10:03 PM

Look the PS90 is not comparable weapon to either the M14 nor the M4. However, the cool factor is off the scale for close quarters. What bothers me about the PS90 is the availability of rounds if you don't reload. I do.

Again, back to the poll, M14 vs M16? I take the M16. I'm fat, out of shape and don't want to lug around a 10lb rifle when I can carry a 6.5lb carbine that smacks *** all day long.

I'll take all the criticism that can be heaped upon me, but you better be in real shape and have lugged your gear on a 20 mile hike before you can claim that a few pounds "aint nuthin". I know better.

MacArther · 08-08-2006, 10:54 PM

Been there done that, and there are intermitent full out sprints at times. I have basically done the 20 miles from the number of times I traversed a large scenario paintball field once. Let me tell you, 10lb marker, 20lb pod set fully loaded are not fun to lug around. Added to this is the bursts of speed. But I digress, I would still go for the M-14, cause I'm used to lifting weight (although my back won't like me afterwards).

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-09-2006, 12:30 PM

Carried an M-60 Machine gun for 12 miles one time. Damn that sucked!

102first_hussars · 08-09-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Just kidding P38.

Size really does not matter when shooting a rifle, it is how you hold it and your fireing techniques.

In basic training they go over so many of these things over and over and over again that you get so tired of it, but when the time comes to fire you dont even realize it and it almost feels natural or like a surprise that the weapon fired.

Size does matter, dont you ever see those kids say in Somalia who couldnt even hold the weapon to there shoulder? they had to fire from the hip