Martlet MkIII vs. Me109E

[Amsel]

How good of a matchup was this in your opinion?

EDIT: The MkI and II can be compared as well.

[Vincenzo]

saw the first combat of Martlet in december 1940 imho it's more comparable with 109F

[Vassili Zaitzev]

I think it's a good matchup. I'll have to look about the characteristics of the 109 E. The Martlett is the American F4F right?

Hang on, I think I started a thread on the F4F vs 109 a few years back. Let me see if I can find it.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...09-a-3447.html (F4F wildcat Vs. Me 109)

Found it, the martlett might be mentioned in here, hope this helps.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeah the Martlett was just foreign ordered Wildcats. I think I would have to go with the 109 on this. I think the F4F would be a bit more rugged, but I believe the 109 would have the edge in maneuverability and climb.

Overall though I think that the 109E and the Wildcat are a pretty close matchup.

[HoHun]

Hi Amsel,

>Martlett MkIII vs. Me109E

Hm, there are only two "t's" in "Martlet", I believe

>How good of a matchup was this in your opinion?

Very good, but only if you're in the Me 109.

Here is a quick comparison of a F4F-3 to a Me 109E with a DB 601A-1 with new-type supercharger for 4.5 km full throttle height, probably the most typical engine during the Battle of Britain.

A Me 109E with DB 601N obviously would be even more capable, of course.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Doughboy]

I think it would be a good matchup.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

I think, the 109 would win against the F4F. The Wildcat was tough, but it wasn't the best dogfighter, or really fast.

Though looking at the turn rates, the F4F wasn't half bad.

[Cromwell]

I see the Martlet as more of a hack-fighter-bomber-recce type of plane. Good for launching off heaving ships on grey wet days at sea. Tough construction with a useful 6 gun pack of Fifty Cals.

The Me109 was more of a 'Blade' in my opinion - cutting through enemy formations.

In Das Boot I think that they were attacked by a Martlet (Wildcat) at one point and the commander says 'the British have stopped making mistakes' or something along those lines. I believe that this action took place in the Med.

Look here also :-

wikipedia.ketsujin.com/index.php/Grumman_Martlet_Mk_I

[comiso90]

I try to avoid comparing "navalized" aircraft with land based aircraft..

The fight would be closer if the Martlet was 400 lbs lighter...

[FLYBOYJ]

This is a similar discussion as comparing the Bf 109 with the P-40. For the most part the Martlet is outclassed but if flown in situations where its stregths can be exploited, it could take on the -109.

[Cromwell]

To be honest I might not have been fair about a couple of things :-

Firstly, I have a feeling that the Brit Wildcat aka 'Martlet' had FOUR guns not six - anyone care to comment ? (in the USA I think they fitted 4 or 6)

Also, it seems that the Martlet was quite a Nippy Little Critter when it comes to Turning and general Maneuverability.

The Cockpit of the Martlet was roomier than the Me109 with better visibility I believe. The Me109 was remarkably cramped especially if you consider the size of the average German citizen !

The controls of the Martlet were well harmonized, and it was a 'delight' to fly apparently.

Comments welcome - or is that Welkommen !

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Cromwell

Firstly, I have a feeling that the Brit Wildcat aka 'Martlet' had FOUR guns not six - anyone care to comment ? (in the USA I think they fitted 4 or 6)

Versions
Mk I British version of the F4F-3; Four 05in machine guns
Mk II British version of F4F-4 with folding wings, armour, self-sealing fuel tanks and six 0.5in machine
guns
Mk III
Mk IV
Mk V General Electric built FM-1 with R-1830-86 engine, four 0.5in machine guns with provision for
underwing stores or: FM-2 with 1,350hp Wright R-1820-56 Cyclone, with taller vertical tail
surfaces and on some aircraft provision for six 5-inch rockets under the wings

[Cromwell]

Thanks Fly-boy ! Keep em coming.

I often feel that the Wildcat has had a' bad-rap' as you might say. It really was a plane for its time and no slouch either really from what I can read about it.

Lets face it - what did we have at this time - the Fulmar and the Swordfish (although even these did get results I must say).

This is a good source

The Grumman F4F Wildcat

[Cromwell]

One Issue we are not addressing here :

Es becoming Fs and Gs

The Me109E would have been pretty much replaced or being replaced by the Me109F & G after late 40/41 - which is when the Martlet was really getting in to service with the RN

So..... I am guessing the F version would have been faster, with large cal Cannon for knocking down bombers, but maybe not so good in a Turning / Dogfight situation ?

More comments please. Many thanks

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

This is a similar discussion as comparing the Bf 109 with the P-40. For the most part the Martlet is outclassed but if flown in situations where its stregths can be exploited, it could take on the -109.

This is true for most a/c of that era. If you have the energy and maybe the surprise factor on your side, almost any a/c can shoot down a much better performing opponent.

Originally Posted by Cromwell

One Issue we are not addressing here :

Es becoming Fs and Gs

The Me109E would have been pretty much replaced or being replaced by the Me109F & G after late 40/41 - which is when the Martlet was really getting in to service with the RN

So..... I am guessing the F version would have been faster, with large cal Cannon for knocking down bombers, but maybe not so good in a Turning / Dogfight situation ?

More comments please. Many thanks

Well, the F was indeed faster. I believe it handled even better than the Emil, but it wasn't heavily armed. The E versions generally had 2 20mm canons, while the F usually had 1 cannon of 15 mm or 20 mm (depending on the sub version).
For the G version, your statement is correct, heavier, faster and better armed than the E, but probably less manoeuvrable.