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11-15-2005, 08:57 AM
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#136 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
| Also compared to Allied planes the aircraft was fragile. With almst no armor and no self sealing tanks once a Allied fighter with its heavier firepower got behind it and started to score hits its was adios muchachos.
Still it was nimble and had great range and I think there are only three flying today and two of those appeared in the movie Pearl Harbor. Also I think that it also the most expensive warbird to own, approaching 2 million US dollars.
:{)
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During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | 
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11-15-2005, 08:57 AM
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#137 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,757
| I agree with you PlanD but the Spitfires weren't out there and the Zero was at least as good as anything it was up against.
Personally from what I have read the reason why the USA could hold there own against the Zero's wasn't because of the aircraft the USA had. It was the better training, discipline and ability to modify their tactics that made the USA so formidable.
Since I joined this thread it was suggested that I read some books that were reccomended and I am glad that I did. There were a number of times when Jap pilots came back spitting with fury because they got in each others way. Chased planes when they should have concentrated on the allocated task letting the American planes either get away or get through to their targets. As far as I can tell they were still flying V formations until late in the war. Even we learned that lesson.
As I said in my post, I don't think the Zero was the best fighter in 1942 but it was a valid opinion given the opposition. | |
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11-15-2005, 08:58 AM
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#138 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,145
Country:  | It is certainly one of the rarest to own.
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-16-2005, 11:21 AM
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#139 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder It is certainly one of the rarest to own. | No doubt! I was reading a little on actual Zeros, not modified Texans, used in movies. Pearl Harbor used two out of the three still flying. There are several in flying condition in museums around the world, but only three are currently flying. There are various types in museums around the world in varying stages of either display or restoration. The USN museum in Pensacola has a gorgeous Zero. From what I read they're the only Japanese WWII aircraft flying. The others that you see are either Vultees and Texans that have been mutated to look like Zeros, Jills, and so on. So when when you see Tora Tora Tora! or re-runs of Baa Baa Black Sheep they are these mutants (they technically are not replicas).
:{)
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During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | |
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11-16-2005, 12:51 PM
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#140 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,145
Country: | Actually, if you come to Camarillo, I can show you a real A6M3 that flies at airshows all season. I have worked on it and sat in it. There is also an A6M5 in Chino that flies regularly. In Camarillo, we also have a non-flying A6M2 that is up for sale. It needs work, so the asking price is $695,000.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-16-2005, 12:56 PM
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#141 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,511
Country: | Eric, I was waiting for you to give him the sales pitch! 
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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11-16-2005, 12:59 PM
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#142 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,145
Country: | hehe, even at that price, it still needs ALOT of work. If I had the time and the money, I would invest in it. It could be made flyable, but it's going to take a lot of TLC to get there. I hope whoever does buy it will make it flyable again.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-16-2005, 01:09 PM
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#143 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,511
Country: | Yep!!!!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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11-16-2005, 01:11 PM
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#144 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,578
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Glider DerAlder. We've had this before but because one man may be wrong about something or you disagree about what he says doesn't make him a liar.
Personally I would agree that the Zero wasn't the best fighter in 1942/3. But if you look at what it was up against in its theater of operations then its a fair opinion. People will argue that the Wildcat performed better which is also a valid opinion.
Test pilots are not fools or they wouldn't last long, neither do they suffer fools gladly. Tiger is right when he says that Eric Brown is widely respected in that community, and I for one wouldn't disagree with the views of his peers. | Yes but when eneogh pilots who actually flew an aircraft and fought against an aircraft can dispute what he says that tells me hes full of it.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-19-2005, 02:46 PM
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#145 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
| Best out of Zero, Spit and Mustang
Tra la la!
easy to call a man a liar when you don't agree with him!
Brown was an EXCEPTIONAL pilot!!! More types flown than ANY OTHER pilot! More DECK LANDINGS than any other pilot!
He was the test pilot's test pilot!
For 'Arm Chair' pilots to criticise a man of his stature is utterly ludicrous!
The fact is that the IJN pilots LOVED the Zero and prefered fighting with it right up to the end of WWII! Offered replacements like the Shiden (4x20mm...armour...manouverability...self sealing tanks...POWER!), they let their preference for the Zero be known in no uncertain terms!
The IJN's shortage of aircraft and pilots (and flawed Top Brass thinking) was the deciding factor in the Pacific Air War...the jig was up after Midway!
Jiro Horikoshi's design was BRILLIANT and as original as any other fighter of its day.
Incidentally, I have done a little flying myself and if I was asked what airplane I would have liked to have flown in WWII...Tempest V or P38
C'mon boys... | |
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11-19-2005, 03:01 PM
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#146 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,511
Country: | Re: Best out of Zero, Spit and Mustang
Quote: |
Originally Posted by TigerSnake Tra la la!
easy to call a man a liar when you don't agree with him!
Brown was an EXCEPTIONAL pilot!!! More types flown than ANY OTHER pilot! More DECK LANDINGS than any other pilot!
He was the test pilot's test pilot!
For 'Arm Chair' pilots to criticise a man of his stature is utterly ludicrous!
The fact is that the IJN pilots LOVED the Zero and prefered fighting with it right up to the end of WWII! Offered replacements like the Shiden (4x20mm...armour...manouverability...self sealing tanks...POWER!), they let their preference for the Zero be known in no uncertain terms!
The IJN's shortage of aircraft and pilots (and flawed Top Brass thinking) was the deciding factor in the Pacific Air War...the jig was up after Midway!
Jiro Horikoshi's design was BRILLIANT and as original as any other fighter of its day.
Incidentally, I have done a little flying myself and if I was asked what airplane I would have liked to have flown in WWII...Tempest V or P38
C'mon boys... | There is no denying Brown's Career and capabilities but at the same time he as also known as an exaggerator, to put it mildly. After a single flight test evaluation, he has attempted to dispute the reports of pilots who had hundreds of hours in the same aircraft...
Sure, many IJN pilots loved the Zero till the very end, those who survived and never took their fight above 300 mph....The Zero was brilliant, but over rated. Statistics as early as 1942 proved that.
I fly too - on occasion.....
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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11-20-2005, 05:13 AM
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#147 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
| Now the discussion IS getting ridiculous...
Brown has the USN...RAF...RN...RAE...Grumman and a whole host of other 'Aviation Amateurs' behind him and his test findings!
I was hoping for some learned and well thought out banter on the subject...I rest my case.
Thank you one and all! | |
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11-20-2005, 07:49 AM
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#148 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,533
Country: | My Grandfather was a Black Sheep, and did some test flight work after the War.... If my Gradfather thought Brown was a moron and someone he could never trust, thats good enough for me...
And Joe is correct, what Brown did on several instances was call distinguished fighter pilots liars, discounting the veterans opinions and stating that HIS opinion was the only one that mattered...
The guy was in love with himself and the glory he courted... Quote: |
I was hoping for some learned and well thought out banter on the subject...I rest my case.
| If that was some sort of wiseass comment, u came to the wrong website pal... Quote: |
Brown has the USN...RAF...RN...RAE...Grumman and a whole host of other 'Aviation Amateurs' behind him and his test findings!
| Bullshit.... There was a certain Brig General who damn near ripped his head off for some of the things he said concerning pilot quality and dedication... U dont disrespect the dead to a man who lead those dead heros...
Piss on Brown....
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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11-20-2005, 09:16 AM
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#149 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,578
Country: | Re: Best out of Zero, Spit and Mustang
Quote: |
Originally Posted by TigerSnake For 'Arm Chair' pilots to criticise a man of his stature is utterly ludicrous! | My suggestiont o you would be to hang around here and learn what people do before you accuse people of things such as being 'Arm Chair" pilots. FBJ happens to be a very experience pilot and maintenance technician. I happen to have a privat pilots liscence (rarely get to fly though) and also happen to be a Blackhawk crewchief with almost 1500 hours of flight time and fly every day in that including about 3 Maintenance Test Flights a weeks. We happen to know a thing to two about flying. I wouldn't call that armchair pilots or crews.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-20-2005, 09:23 AM
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#150 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | and i've played on IL2 FB 
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