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11-27-2005, 11:04 AM
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#211 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country:  | Im in the ATC but I doubt ill go into the RAF. But still. 
Welcome Falcon, look forward to hearing more from you! 
__________________  with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | 
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11-27-2005, 12:13 PM
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#212 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by falcon39 Thanks Adler& Les. Never say you are "just a crewchief"!! The whole team is needed to do the job. I know that I owe my life to my crewchief and gunner in Vietnam. One of them was an ex-infantry soldier from the OZ army and he could always put his first rounds from the twin-M60 doorguns exactly on target, and he had hawkeyes as well. I can tell you wasn't "just a crewchief"! I haven't had any flak on my favourites yet. I am still working my way through the whole forum history. I note a bit of turbulence in places! Opinions that I greatly respect, and consider worthy of researching are those of Johnnie Johnson, Dougie Bader, and Adolph Galland. | Agreed. 
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-27-2005, 03:37 PM
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#213 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Queensland
Posts: 14
| Lanc I have to tell you something that you must never tell my old fighter colleagues. The Lancaster is the only four-engined a/c that I would love to fly. Back to fighters now. The human factor that makes selecting 'the best' difficult was well exemplified by the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots of 'The Battle of Britain'. My fighter flying was all in peace time and the scramble take-offs in Mirages etc were very serious affairs. But I still have trouble getting my head around the magnitude of what those BOB pilots and the whole team of observers, radar ops, ops rooms, maintenance troops all did. How do you factor that into the equation, and still respect someone else's choice of pecking order? | |
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11-27-2005, 03:39 PM
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#214 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | I agree with you. I dont think that anyone can understand what they were going through. The stress factor must have been incredible.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-27-2005, 06:09 PM
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#215 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,004
Country:  | A true fight for survival...
I think if I was Hugh Downing, I would of has a stoke within the first 4 days of the BoB...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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11-27-2005, 06:11 PM
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#216 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Me too...
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-27-2005, 07:55 PM
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#217 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country:  | I'm pretty sure on the second day he thought it was a bad week to stop sniffing glue.
And I doubt anyone is going to get that, but still.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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11-27-2005, 11:38 PM
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#218 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Queensland
Posts: 14
| Politics and national allegiances aside Adler, I am sure it was no walk in the park for German fighter jocks either.
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Falcon39 - Check Six! | |
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11-28-2005, 12:11 AM
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#219 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,004
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by plan_D I'm pretty sure on the second day he thought it was a bad week to stop sniffing glue. | You're a madman! 
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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11-28-2005, 06:28 AM
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#220 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,231
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ A true fight for survival...
I think if I was Hugh Downing, I would of has a stoke within the first 4 days of the BoB... | It was. I'm most people would have cracked fairly early on in that campaign but his cool head saved the day and the country. (see the quote in my sig).
__________________  "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
Sir Winston Churchill
"To him the people of the world largely owe the Freedom and liberties they enjoy today"
Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London
Moderator WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum | 
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11-28-2005, 06:29 AM
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#221 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stafford Springs, Connecticut
Posts: 403
Country: | I would say that the Mustang is the better pick. the six 50 caliber machine guns would tear into a zero and 109. It is faster than both the zero and 109. It may not be as maneverable as the zero but neither was the hellcat and they had success using the thach weave. Against the 109 the Mustang could just out run the 109 since the Mustang could go over 450 MPH.
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"Never was so much owed by so many to so few"- Winston Churchill | |
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11-28-2005, 09:42 AM
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#222 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country: | The P-51H could do over 450mph but I dont think that saw much, if any service in WW2. P-51D's could "only" do 437mph. (Late 109G's could probably match this and 109K's could easily). With equal pilots in equal situations id have to go with the 109.
__________________ with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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11-28-2005, 10:19 AM
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#223 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,231
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by cheddar cheese The P-51H could do over 450mph but I dont think that saw much, if any service in WW2. P-51D's could "only" do 437mph. (Late 109G's could probably match this and 109K's could easily). With equal pilots in equal situations id have to go with the 109. | Agreed.
__________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
Sir Winston Churchill
"To him the people of the world largely owe the Freedom and liberties they enjoy today"
Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London
Moderator WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum | |
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11-28-2005, 12:38 PM
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#224 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by falcon39 Politics and national allegiances aside Adler, I am sure it was no walk in the park for German fighter jocks either. | Agreed 100% with you. As you said Polotics and national allegiances aside my hats are off to the pilots who flew for both sides. What they did, not everyone could do and they were all very brave. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Vassili Zaitzev I would say that the Mustang is the better pick. the six 50 caliber machine guns would tear into a zero and 109. It is faster than both the zero and 109. It may not be as maneverable as the zero but neither was the hellcat and they had success using the thach weave. Against the 109 the Mustang could just out run the 109 since the Mustang could go over 450 MPH. | Disagree mostly since in a dog fight, the P-51D would not be going 437mph (not 450 like you said, that was the P-51H which as was stated did not see much for combat in WW2). You dont dogfight at your max speed, it is considerably slower.
P-51D: 437mph
Bf-109G-6: 387mph
Bf-109K-4: 452mph
If both a P-51D and Bf-109G or K fought one on one with one another my guess is that they would be flying less than 360mph each in there fight. Might be wrong but that is my guess. You dont turn as well at higherspeeds as you would at lower ones. The main thing that made the P-51D so successful was its shear numbers. 5 Bf-109s versus 35 P-51D's. The numbers speak for themselves.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-28-2005, 04:45 PM
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#225 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Texas
Posts: 405
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Quote: |
Originally Posted by falcon39 Politics and national allegiances aside Adler, I am sure it was no walk in the park for German fighter jocks either. | Agreed 100% with you. As you said Polotics and national allegiances aside my hats are off to the pilots who flew for both sides. What they did, not everyone could do and they were all very brave. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Vassili Zaitzev I would say that the Mustang is the better pick. the six 50 caliber machine guns would tear into a zero and 109. It is faster than both the zero and 109. It may not be as maneverable as the zero but neither was the hellcat and they had success using the thach weave. Against the 109 the Mustang could just out run the 109 since the Mustang could go over 450 MPH. | Disagree mostly since in a dog fight, the P-51D would not be going 437mph (not 450 like you said, that was the P-51H which as was stated did not see much for combat in WW2). You dont dogfight at your max speed, it is considerably slower.
P-51D: 437mph
Bf-109G-6: 387mph
Bf-109K-4: 452mph
If both a P-51D and Bf-109G or K fought one on one with one another my guess is that they would be flying less than 360mph each in there fight. Might be wrong but that is my guess. You dont turn as well at higherspeeds as you would at lower ones. The main thing that made the P-51D so successful was its shear numbers. 5 Bf-109s versus 35 P-51D's. The numbers speak for themselves. | I agree with you because it was late in the war and germany's factories were constantly bombed thus causing them to produce fewer but better planes than the Allies. Also the U.S. could mass produce anything it needed for the war, planes being one of them. But don't get me wrong the P-51 was a great plane and it turned the air war over to the Allies favor when it was introduced.
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To Saint Peter he will tell;
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I've served my time in hell." A marine gravemarker on guadalcanal | |
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