Me 109, Spitfire, Zero or Mustang

[cheddar cheese]

I go 109G.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Same here Bf-109G-6 to be exact.

[Holmes]

We got Mustang, so it has to be at least 1943. So...

For sure NO:

a) Mustang - long range escort plane which was made "famoust WWII fighter" only by american propaganda. No match for good 109 pilot (but P-51 Runtang could always put the nose down and fly away). In DF it was as useless as brick. It is only EF fighter so suprise & speed alt advantage is the only key to victory.

b) Zeke - in 1943 it's flying museum. She has a chance only at low level DF.

With PLEASURE:

a) Spit IX - superuniversal, multipurpose fighter. Good at DF&EF. Superb armament.

To WIN:

a) 109 F4/F2/G2/G6 - in DF it could outmaneveur any fighter from written above list. If attackin with a little advantage could easly win.

Of course all depends of PILOT F.e. good Zeke pilot could kill P-51 in few minutes during DF duel

[Holmes]

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

P51 Mustang for me. Because it was pretty good in dogfights with its M2 Browning .50

M2 in compare with MG-151 is a toy :P

[plan_D]

Six Browning M2 .50 cal would make easy meat out of any fighter. The Mustang entered combat at a higher altitude and faster speed than most of it's opponents. It was in a perfect situation to bounce it's opponent. Remember that the majority of those shot down did not see their destroyer.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

While I agree with you asssessment there and I too choose the Bf-109 as you did, I think you underestimate the Spitfire a bit much.

[plan_D]

That's an under-estimate of the Spitfire. A Spitfire IX was superior to the Bf-109F. In my opinion it was also superior to the Bf-109G which was getting a little sluggish by that time.

In any case, why the Spitfire IX? The Spitfire XIV was just as agile as the Spitfire IX while being superior in everything else. Then again there's the Spitfire 21 which held the some agility while being superior to the Spitfire XIV in everything but climb to altitude.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by plan_D

That's an under-estimate of the Spitfire.

That is what I said.

[plan_D]

Yes. Yes you did.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Just checking

[P38 Pilot]

Hey, i would rather want an aircraft that can make sure you take the enemy out before the shoot the mess out of your aircraft. The P51 with it's .50s could lay down a can of whoop-asson any German fighter.

The -109, pretty good aircraft. But once the -190 came into the fight, it made the -109 look like a toy.

[Holmes]

plan_d: all You have to do to avoid being shooted down by Mustang when flying 109 is to SEE him. That enough Even if she was higher/faster.

P38 pilot: sure, but to open a can U have to keep it at your 12 for few secs. Without that even a dozens of 0.50s are useless And armament is only a part (not so important) of fighter characteristic. F.e. take a look at 190 A8/R8 (2 x deadly & stunning MK10. Gunned like a tank but is it enough to shoot down f.e. Yak-3? No, because it little plane can easily outmaneuver 190 and run away using DF tactics (exactly the same as 109 vs. P51).

And we should remember that every plane was build for other missions. 109 was a multipurpose fighter (depending on version), P-51 was a long distance, ESCORT plane. P47 was air superiority, high altitude fighter or jabo, etc, etc.

And one more thing. EVERY dogfights is win or lost by the man and machine (first - the man, then - the machine). The most powerful weapon of every fighter plane is ... brain of it's pilot.

[plan_D]

Having the height advantage is important in any combat. The Mustang enters with that advantage straight away. The Mustang also enters with a speed advantage over the Bf-109.

The Bf-109 has to avoid the first passes by the Mustang to bring the Mustang down to his level of combat. It's easier said than done because the vast majority of kills were claimed when their opponent didn't even see him.

Think about that; the majority didn't see who shot them down. That's an advantage to the Mustang as it's got a higher chance of being able to pounce it's enemy as it's flying higher and faster. If the Bf-109 is lucky enough to see it's opponent then the Mustang would be in trouble if it's missed it's first oppurtunities. Then the Mustang would do best to break off from action.

However, the important point is most of those shot down did not see their destroyer!

[Parmigiano]

Originally Posted by plan_D

Having the height advantage is important in any combat. The Mustang enters with that advantage straight away. The Mustang also enters with a speed advantage over the Bf-109.
[/i]

.. depending from the 109 model: statement correct for 109 F or early G, late G's almost equivalent to P51D and 109K had better performance, so the concept is reverted.

[plan_D]

I think generally the Mustang would still enter higher than the Bf-109 because the Mustang would have already formed at high altitude. It would be roaming ahead of the bomber formation, the German interceptors would have to climb up to meet the Mustangs and, more importantly, the bombers.