Me 109, Spitfire, Zero or Mustang

lesofprimus · 10-25-2005, 07:56 AM

You beat me to it Parm...

Udet · 10-25-2005, 11:33 AM

Erich:

"that 9 out of 10 times the P-51 groups had the upper hand in the air" as the fundamental consequence of massive numerical superiority.

Erich · 10-25-2005, 01:08 PM

nope friend, being outnumbered is a different ball of wax. Time and time again when the Luftwaffe met the Allied armada of bombers the P-51's were above them on a continual basis just egging on the Luftwaffe to come up and meet them. Not because of the numerical order, because as they left England they climbed and stayed high.

True the German radar system was capable but faints occurred on every mission, Luftwaffe fighter gruppen were told to get in the air on too slow of a basis which was common occurance from the fall of 44 till wars inevitable end

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 10-29-2005, 06:55 AM

I can agree with most aspects except for all the 109's being drum fed.

As for the P-51's yes numerical superiority did play a large role in Mustangs success but I also agree that when you already higher up over the 109's that is a big advantage also.

HealzDevo · 11-06-2005, 06:09 PM

Mustang although it would be interesting to organize a dog-fight between an early Zero and an early Spitfire to see which one could win. I like the Mustang, it has great range while still providing protection for the pilot. These were still being used in Korea, but not too much in Vietnam. Korea would have been about the 1950s therefore it goes to show the mark of a great plane while the Bf-109 and the Zero sort of just virtually died away.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-06-2005, 06:16 PM

The Spit would have taken on a Zero even in the beginning and had no problem. It was more maneuverable.

The Zero died off because the Japs lost the war!

The 109 did not die off. It was used well into the 1960's. Me-109G's were used by Finland until the 1950's. HavLv 33 still had them in 1954. Everheard of the S-99 and the S-199. They were Czech developments of the Bf-109. They were used by Isreal and the Czech republic into the 1950's. The Hispanno HA-1112 which was a Spanish varient of the 109 were used into the 1960's. The last ones being retired from service in November 1965.

CurzonDax · 11-07-2005, 08:51 AM

The Hispanno HA-1112 which was a Spanish varient of the 109 were used into the 1960's. The last ones being retired from service in November 1965.[/quote]

Many of these Ha-1112 and the Hispano version of the HE-111 were used in the movie The Battle of Britain. Also when I was in Spain as a teen (1980's), the 111s were still used as courier planes between bases and the HA-1112 were being sold to warbirders. For the longest time the Confederate Airforce, Planes of Fame and all the other "flying" aircraft museums were using the Ha-1112 in Luftwaffe livery in thier airshows. In fact if I remember my warbird fact correctly the Ha-1112 is the most common version of the 109 flying in airshows around the world. Just curious, these were Merlin powered right?

Also Mustangs were still being used by many Central American Airforces well into the 70's.

:{)

FLYBOYJ · 11-07-2005, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurzonDax

Also Mustangs were still being used by many Central American Airforces well into the 70's.

:{)

The Dominican Republic was the last P-51 operator. I think they got rid of theirs in the mid 1980s.

CurzonDax · 11-07-2005, 09:59 AM

The Dominican Republic was the last P-51 operator. I think they got rid of theirs in the mid 1980s.[/quote]

Oh yea! When I was living in PR, I went to my first airshow and remembered taking a pic next to a DR 'Stang. I remember thinking it was much cooler than the F-15 and 16 that it was next. Wow, blast from the past memory. I will dig out the pic and post it.

:{)

CurzonDax · 11-07-2005, 10:08 AM

As another footnote, it just occured to me, during the "soccer war" of 1969 between El Salvador and Honduras, Salvadoran P-51s and Corsairs clashed with Honduran planes of the same make. That must have been confusing!

:{)