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11-09-2005, 01:33 PM
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#91 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
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Originally Posted by CurzonDax I will have to see if my mom still has them, but in the mean time check these out. DR 'stangs. For more info check out www.acig.com. | Actually the site its www.acig.org. Sorry.
:{)
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During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | 
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11-09-2005, 02:39 PM
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#92 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,157
Country:  |  the name of the jpg is a little odd for the pic!
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-09-2005, 08:06 PM
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#93 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder the name of the jpg is a little odd for the pic! | Like I said, I only work here.
:{)
__________________
During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | |
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11-09-2005, 08:31 PM
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#94 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,541
Country: | Some fighter pilots would simply state:
"I am what I eat..."
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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11-10-2005, 05:51 AM
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#95 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: United States
Posts: 75
| When it comes to these planes I don't think it is the plane that decided who would win but the pilots that flew them.
They only way a zero would win is if it had clipped wings for better roll, bigger engine put in i.e. 2000hp would be great, better armor add, and some new faster firing 20mm guns.
I see a lot of Me-109's getting the win. I think you all are wrong because the P-51 proved that it could rule the sky over Europe and anywhere else. Speed, a good turn radius, and pilot training is what I think made the P-51 a winner. I think the saying goes, "Speed is life, Go slow and your going to get hit."
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Get the greedy bastard... | |
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11-10-2005, 08:19 AM
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#96 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,157
Country: | Clipping the wings would not have made much of a difference with the Zero. A more powerful engine would not have either. The ailerons were huge on the zero and above about 275, they are immovable. Plus a bigger engine and more armor adds weight, which would effect speed and manueverability. If the speed are 250 MPH or beow, the Zero is going to outmanuever almost anything.
Speed may be life, but once you start a turning dogfight, it doesn't really become a factor. Manueverability is the key there. It's more about energy management and making the best of your aircraft strengths while exploiting the enemy aircraft's weaknesses.
The P-51 was a good fighter, but to say it "ruled the sky" is a bit of a stretch. The 109 was an older aircraft that was still splashing Mustangs. Numerical superiority was what made the numbers good for the Mustang.
The Mustang was great in that it had the range to take the fight to the Germans.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-10-2005, 08:33 AM
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#97 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK
Posts: 3,435
Country:  | Good post Eric it makes sense to me most of what I read in books talks of out manouvering your opponant unless your on the run in which case perfomance is nice to have.
As many guys have posted in the past, stick a top line pilot in a reasonable plane, and the novice in a superior plane is in a whole lot of trouble . | |
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11-10-2005, 08:43 AM
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#98 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,157
Country: | Yep, piloting skills make a big difference. But get a great pilot in a great plane, and you have an ace in the making!
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-10-2005, 01:41 PM
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#99 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,615
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by book1182
I see a lot of Me-109's getting the win. I think you all are wrong because the P-51 proved that it could rule the sky over Europe and anywhere else. Speed, a good turn radius, and pilot training is what I think made the P-51 a winner. I think the saying goes, "Speed is life, Go slow and your going to get hit."
| Just another person that has fallen into the myth. Bf-109G's and K's could fly just as fast as a P-51D and turn almost as well. They could climb just as well also. The P-51D is famous because of propaganda and it is on the side that won the war. It was a good escort fighter but not the best fighter. It won because of numerical superiority. The P-47, P-38 and Spitfire were better aircraft than the P-51.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-10-2005, 05:02 PM
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#100 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,199
Country:  | Clearly for me it would of been the BF109.
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In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
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11-11-2005, 07:21 AM
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#101 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,615
Country: | The 109 is my favorite fighter of WW2 anyhow. It was not the best but it is my favorite.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-12-2005, 11:43 AM
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#102 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 355
| I actually do not like the Mustang. When compared to its radial engine counter parts in the USAF, USN, and USMC, it was fragile. For example, how many 'Stangs were lost because of a hit on a coolant line. A hit in the same place on a 'Bolt, for example, all you did was tick off the pilot and the crew chief. I am not minimizing the role of the P-51, but it does, in my experience, has an almost cult following. HMMMMM, its almost like those guys who like Spits, 109s, and Lancs. Things that make you go HMMMMM
;{P
Still, I guess that was a problem with liquid cooled engines. I wonder was the pilot surviviability of a 109 vs a P-51. I exclude a Zero because anything above a spit wad would shred it. Still I don't think the 'Stang was the best plane the US had. If you want to compare kill ratios the Hellcat and Corsair were well above it and the P-47 gave it a run for its money.
:{)
__________________
During World War II, Chuck Norris once shot down a German plane. He pointed his finger and yelled BANG! | |
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11-13-2005, 06:08 AM
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#103 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,615
Country: | Spits and 109s were great aircraft. I like them. Do I make you go hmmm?
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-13-2005, 07:01 AM
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#104 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,541
Country: | I dont think comparing kill ratios between the Pacific and Europe really proves anything... Different combat, different enemy...
But.... I agree with Curzon entirely on his above post... If the P-47D was manufactured in such numbers as the P-51D, and used in the escort role exclusively, all these P-51 bandwagoneers would be P-47 bandwaggoneers.... Just about all the German pilots I have ever met, or even read about, said that the P-47 was a more dangerous enemy, but the #'s of Mustangs covering a bomber stream was more than the Luftwaffe could handle...
3 Stafflen vs 500 escorts??? Not very good odds is it???
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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11-13-2005, 07:55 AM
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#105 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,051
Country:  | Is it me or is he trying to call the Spitfire crap? Do I have to slap him?
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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