Me-262

Erich · 07-09-2004, 08:48 AM

Plan the JG 7 unit claimed over 400 kills during the whole war.

actually the Schnellboote units out of two French channel bases did attack Allied shipping an scored. I have the records from Germany..........

Huckebein · 07-09-2004, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

Quote:

To have more than a thousand '262s flying

you make it sound like they were all up ther at the same time, which they weren't, i think you ceem to think that the 262 was invincible, but it wasn't.....................

By 'flying' I meant operational/ serviceable. And I am quite aware that the '262 was far from invincible; as I said in my previous post they woud still have needed piston-engined fighter cover during takeoff and landing, no matter how many there were.

the lancaster kicks ass · 07-09-2004, 01:47 PM

not just while taking off/landing, there were many fighters that could outmanouver it......................

Huckebein · 07-09-2004, 01:52 PM

Yeah, that too...

the lancaster kicks ass · 07-09-2004, 01:57 PM

and it wouldn't have been able to keep it's top speed for long...................

Lightning Guy · 07-09-2004, 02:24 PM

And was very vulnerable on take-off and landing since the Luftwaffe couldn't even maintain air superiority over its own bases. Total Luftwaffe daylight sorties against the Normandy beach head: 2 Fw-190s. The 262s would have had trouble over the beach as well due to the number of Allied fighters in the proximity as well as the AA guns on the ships.

plan_D · 07-10-2004, 03:38 PM

Over 100 Me-262s fell to P-51s and P-47s. The '262' would have been able to gain air superiority with ease, when JG7 gets 427 kills from late 1944 to VE day.

The Allied pilots had to work out tactics to destroy the Schwalbes, diving down on them when the '262' was climbing to match their speed, and such. Taking on a 262 wasn't an easy task.

Lightning Guy · 07-10-2004, 03:48 PM

But most of those kills weren't over fighters. The Allies had a huge numerical advantage over the 262 that couldn't be overcome.

plan_D · 07-10-2004, 03:58 PM

427 from one Geschwader, 300 were four-engined bombers. You've still got around 100 being fighters. And just over 100 '262s' were claimed by P-51s and P-47s over all. Then you've got the other Jv44, Kommando Welter and Kommando Nowotny kills. Maybe Erich could help us with that.

Erich · 07-10-2004, 05:32 PM

JV 44 is unoffcially given credit for at least 45 Allied a/c which I do not believe, and the reason from my perspective is that the unit was on the constant move and stationed in southern Germany/Austria for a time being where there was not much bomber activity except for 9th AF B-26's, P-47's on occassion. there was talk of the unit being absorbed into JG 7 for it's IV. gruppe and on paper it was.

10./NJG 11 aka Kommando Welter..............well let's just say it is a surprise which will be dealt with at some length on certain ops in our book.

Ekdo 262 the first jet fighter unit had approx. 21 kills

Kommando Nowotny roughly 33 kills

III./EJG 2 had around 20 or so kills.

I./KG(J) 54 around 30 kills

E ~

plan_D · 07-10-2004, 06:43 PM

Did only I/KG (J) 54 use the '262'? Or was it the whole Geschwader, and only I Staffel got the kills? Those were Me-262A-2a, correct?

The same with III./EJG 2, was it only the III Staffel using them? And what does EJG stand for?

Thanks in advance.

Erich · 07-12-2004, 07:37 PM

Actualy the KG 54 was still used on fighter as well as bomber missions on soviet territory especially. In fact while based close to Prague on small air strips they were jumped continually by US P-51's. think II. gruppe operated them but suffered the fate under US .50's on their way to supportive ground attck missions.

There was a I. and II. gruppe of EJG as well and am not sure the designation // JG would indicate = jagdgeschwader. E possibly Eratz ?

E ♪

Schrage Muzik · 07-17-2004, 06:31 PM

One fast plane does not a superior air force make.

What the Germans needed was bombers. Big, strategic bombers. It was the Fortresses, Lancs, and Liberators that did them in, crippled their production capacity.

The He. 219 was a good start, but that silly requirement that it be usable as a dive bomber killed it. If the Horten brothers had been able to build their flying wing bomber concept, that would have been a cruicial aircraft.

plan_D · 07-17-2004, 09:13 PM

That's the same mentality as Hitler. The Luftwaffe didn't need bombers by 1944, it needed fighters. And the Me-262 was not only fast, but very heavily armed and a perfectly capable aircraft.

In 1940 big four-engined bombers would have been most likely war-winning, but by 1944 the need was gone. Hit and run bombers and defensive fighters were needed. The Me-262 probably covered both roles better than most things. Plus it had night fighter to its name.

Schrage Muzik · 07-18-2004, 02:09 AM

I know that. They needed bombers early on, to hammer at britain's industrial capacity, rather than just fling buzz bombs around.

Fighters and tactical bombers are largely defense, and defense does not win wars.