P-38 Lightning vs P-51 Mustang: Which was the Better Fighter?

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Oh boy. Looks like the Mustang is running loose again.

[timshatz]

Another point for consideration:
Mustang $54,000 each (P51D)
Lightning $114,000 (P-38L)

When you get right down to it, it's all about the money.

[loomaluftwaffe]

nice info, but more mustangs are lost to accidents than lightnings too

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by timshatz

Another point for consideration:
Mustang $54,000 each (P51D)
Lightning $114,000 (P-38L)

When you get right down to it, it's all about the money.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[timshatz]

Bunch of other prices for Aircraft (in thousands):
P36A- 23
P35A- 22.5
P39Q- 46
P40E- 45
A-36A (Allison Mustang Version) 49
P47D- 85
P-61C 170

Bombers:
B-17G 276
B-25B 96
a-20G 74
A-24A (Douglas SBD) 38.2K
B-24D 336
B-26G 227
C-47D- 138
C-46D- 223
B-29 639

All the prices came from the US Air Force Museam page. Here's a link:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap.htm

[HealzDevo]

I would say neither, because what models of the P-51 and the P-38 Lightening are we talking? A P-38J Lightning had a pretty long range with tanks. A P-38 Lightning actually had more fire-power mounted in it, for actually blasting away at the enemy. So chances are most of the time it didn't get to be a dog-fight. Plus two engines to get you home. In Europe though the P-51 had an advantage. However, a lot depends on what sort of pilot we are talking about. The Germans were obviously interested in the P-38 design as I have photos of them in German Colours. It is the same with various marks of the P-51. Obviously the Germans regarded both types as very deadly to go to the trouble of fixing some examples and repainting them in German Colours.

[Hot Space]

P-51 I guess

[102first_hussars]

Originally Posted by d_bader

. Yes, although it wasn't used in the pacific

Acutally thats not true, there was 100 P-51's that saw action between The Netherlands and China against the Japanese in the Pacific, this was all due to the lend-lease act.

[wmaxt]

A couple of things to consider.
Jack Ilfry felt the P-51 was the better escort fighter.

The P-38 fought in all theaters and even more importantly was the AAF air superiority fighter in all of them when it arrived on scene. When it arrived it was out numbered, lacked tactical experience, and had green pilots and support crew. When follow on aircraft arrived P-47 & P-51s control of the air had been won (the ETO was 2/3 P-38 1/3 P-51 during this period).

The P-51 did not make a significant contribution anywhere but the ETO, in fact in the Pacific a little ditty ran "Don't give me a P-51...you'll run out of sky" There were still reports of P-51s losing tail sections in maneuver fights in April, '45.

Art Haiden makes a point of saying that the P-51 was easier to train pilots and got the job done (escort) but for dogfighting, he (and many others who flew both) wanted a P-38. On another forum a nephew of a P-51 pilot related this piece of advice about a P-38/P-51 match-up. "If your going to fight (a P-3 with a P-51 you better start a lot higher and faster to have a chance" The P-51 had the advantage in a turning fight above 250mph. Climb, initial dive, high speed roll, and acceleration were P-38 advantages. Speed in an L model was close, and the P-38 had an effective gun package out to 1,000yrds making it very diffucult to get away.

In '44/45 the P-38 cost ~$98,000, P-47 ~$87,000 and the P-51 ~$54,000.

I want the P-38

wmaxt

[loomaluftwaffe]

Originally Posted by 102first_hussars

Acutally thats not true, there was 100 P-51's that saw action between The Netherlands and China against the Japanese in the Pacific, this was all due to the lend-lease act.

damn it my grandpa saw hundreds of mustangs in the Philippines

[syscom3]

Id say the argument is about the P38L vs the P51D

[timshatz]

Spoke to a guy once who was the head of the Warbirds association. Was thinking about getting into high performance piston engined (1,000Hp+) and wanted to know if I was heading in the right direction. Told him I was thinking of doing AT-6 and then heading into P51s. Asked him if he though the Mustang was the easiest to fly. He said he though the F4U was the easiest and that the Mustang was pretty advanced.

Not sure if I remember what he was flying but he had something similar. Said flying the P51 was very tricky, had to be retrimmed every time you changed a throttle setting. Also, landing was tough and people were taught to land on two wheels as apposed to three pointers. The Corsair was evidently easier to fly.

Also have heard from others that the P38 was a bear to keep running and also tricky to fly.

Anyway, that's my .02. Not interested in flying warbirds anymore but once was.

[syscom3]

Ive never heard about the P38 being hard to fly. Contra rotating props added to stability and the tricycle nose gear made landings and take off easy.

Keeping it in tune was tough though. Those cramped engine compartments with a maze of ducting for the turbocharger did give the mechanics some fits.

[HealzDevo]

I still maintain my point that the P-38 Lightning was a better plane for the Pacific because depending on the mission you could cut off power to one engine and cross-feed fuel. This would evidently extend its patrol radius even further. Also because you can get the enemy at 10,000 yards chances are if you were a good shot you could kill an enemy before a dog-fight occurred. Also with regards to needing to constantly trim the aircraft every time you changed a throttle-setting, how useful would that be in a dog-fight situation? I think, that the P-38 Lightning was actually more in trim with changing power settings so I have seen on other aircraft discussion forums, and needed less pilot work at a time when the pilot was devoting a lot of attention to achieving a kill. Also you had the speed to actually force the enemy to hang around. A P-51 Mustang couldn't outrun you let alone any of the Pacific Theatre aircraft. Also someone mentioned interestingly enough that as a pure fighter in sufficient quantities to be useful, it came after the P-38 Lightning had done all the hard work in the European Theatre and also later in the war the P-51 Mustangs would have been rarely seriously challenged due to fuel shortages for German Aircraft which would have severely affected the training of their pilots as well. Therefore it would seem this is leading to the P-38 Lightning. Although later on in the Korean War the P-51 Mustang did prove itself very capable. So I really don't know. I suppose they were designed for different purposes.

[pbfoot]

at 10000yds you would be hardpressed to even see the other guy