 | 
07-28-2006, 07:20 PM
|
#61 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1
Country:  | Id have to go with the P-38. But thats what my grandfather used to fly so im more than a little bit biased. | 
|  | |
07-28-2006, 09:12 PM
|
#62 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,477
| I would still want the P51 to go air-to-air with the fighters.
The P38 to go after bombers, and for ground attack missions.
And of course in the PTO, the P38 for any mission over water.
__________________
"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
| | |
07-28-2006, 09:45 PM
|
#63 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,856
Country:  | I think that the Mustang is overrated
__________________  "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland"  | |
| | |
07-28-2006, 10:45 PM
|
#64 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,306
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by JohnnyL The P-38 was the better plane. Everywhere else but the northern ETO, it was pretty much everyone's favorite plane. | Well, there are several Aces that would disagree with u, including Hub Zemke, who rated the -51 AND the -47 better than the -38, and he flew em all...
__________________  "After That Second Kill, I Knew It Was Time To Get The Hell Outta There..."-- Lt. William Northrop Case
To See My IL2 Sturmovik Video Tribute to My Grandfather, Click Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk | 
| | |
07-28-2006, 10:53 PM
|
#65 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,856
Country: | it would probably been his favorite planes cause he gets to paint more victory bars on the rudder, i read on another post about the P-38 being the favorite target
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
| | |
07-29-2006, 02:21 AM
|
#66 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,061
Country:  | What are you talking about looma? Zemke was US 56th FG CO.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
| | |
07-29-2006, 02:26 AM
|
#67 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,856
Country: | oh, mybad 
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
| | |
07-29-2006, 02:59 AM
|
#68 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 29
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by lesofprimus Well, there are several Aces that would disagree with u, including Hub Zemke, who rated the -51 AND the -47 better than the -38, and he flew em all... | Like I said, everywhere but the ETO...
__________________
"...Miracle of miracles, the big old P-38 actually turned inside that nimble little Oscar. I was on the deck, in a vertical bank, and the yoke was bucking and shuddering in my hands. That turn was nothing more nor less than a controlled stall." -- John A. Tilley, USAAC, 457th FG.
Last edited by JohnnyL : 07-29-2006 at 03:01 AM.
| |
| | |
07-29-2006, 05:03 AM
|
#69 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,306
Country: | The location of his usage was not a consideration, it was about airplane performance and combat worthiness... Did the compressability issue only happen in the ETO???
No....
Was the poor visibility only an issue in the ETO???
No...
Was the easily identifiable profile and issue only in the ETO????
NO...
What are the pilots in the PTO supposed to compare the P-38 to???? The Warhawk??? The Aircobra???
Ur whole argument is hogwash, and it starts right here pal.... Quote: |
The P-38 had superior manuverability characteristics in all areas but roll rate. It was capable of turning inside even the Japanese light-fighters.
| U think every Second John could do it??? How bout every cowboy with Captains bars??? There were a select few pilots whose mastery of the -38 was of such a high level that they could make it do what they wanted...
and another thing... Quote: |
That plus its ability to climb like a rocket, dive like a lead rake
| A lead rake??? More like a tombstone.... U have any idea how many pilots died holding that steering wheel in their hands as the plane passes 425 mph strainght down into the ground???
U need to spend some time here and read some of the older posts and educate urself pal, cause ur obviously just another opinioned P-38 fan cause it looked cool with its double booms....
__________________ "After That Second Kill, I Knew It Was Time To Get The Hell Outta There..."-- Lt. William Northrop Case
To See My IL2 Sturmovik Video Tribute to My Grandfather, Click Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk | |
| | |
07-29-2006, 05:12 PM
|
#70 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country:  | I voted for the P-38 because I think overall it was a better aircraft and I think the P-51 was overated.
Now having said that. Both had qualities over the other that made either one better and the P-51 probably has the edge due to the fact that a novice pilot would be able to fly the P-51 easier and make things happen with it quicker than they could with a P-38.
The P-51D was better suited for what it was up against than the P-38 because it was easier to fly.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
| | |
07-29-2006, 06:01 PM
|
#71 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,587
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet I voted for the P-38 because I think overall it was a better aircraft and I think the P-51 was overated.
Now having said that. Both had qualities over the other that made either one better and the P-51 probably has the edge due to the fact that a novice pilot would be able to fly the P-51 easier and make things happen with it quicker than they could with a P-38.
The P-51D was better suited for what it was up against than the P-38 because it was easier to fly. | Agree 200% Quote: |
Originally Posted by lesofprimus and another thing...A lead rake??? More like a tombstone.... U have any idea how many pilots died holding that steering wheel in their hands as the plane passes 425 mph strainght down into the ground??? | Tony LeVier and a former co-worker Joe Melicki (who flew the P-38 in the MTO) said the same thing. There was also folklore around Lockheed (In the Burbank days) that the P-38s top speed was actually much faster than advertised and was kept a but suppressed because it was so easy to slip the aircraft into a terminal coffin.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
| | |
07-30-2006, 01:48 PM
|
#72 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
| There is a lot of truth there! It took an experienced pilot to get the most out of the P-38, then it was really remarkable. For a new 20 hr pilot the Mustang was great. While the P-38 actually did better in the ETO than the P-51, at least in the 8th the P-38s win/loss rate and aircraft return rates were both better than the P-51. The P-51s niche was high altitude escort in the ETO where team work enabled it to do the job. Together with large numbers of aircraft built in two factories, the more plentiful P-51 became the prime escort fighter simplifying maintenance, training, inventories and mission planning.
The really sad thing about the P-38 and compressability is that by retarding the throttles and going to flat pitch on the props it would stay just shy of the critical speed and remain in control of the pilot.
I read that Zemke's problem with the P-38 was its cold cockpit, not its performance. Preddy's diary "The P-38 flies wonderfully, The P-47 an excellent flying plane .... getting tired of the P-47, the P-51 is a good flying ship". Sidney Woods states the P-51 was just a super P-40 and not in the same class as the P-38. Sidney flew in both the ETO and the PTO and felt that he would have shot more German aircraft down if he had a P-38.
Of course those are opinions, everybody has them and they cover the whole range from hate to love.
wmaxt | |
| | |
07-30-2006, 02:03 PM
|
#73 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 30,270
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt There is a lot of truth there! It took an experienced pilot to get the most out of the P-38, then it was really remarkable. For a new 20 hr pilot the Mustang was great. While the P-38 actually did better in the ETO than the P-51, at least in the 8th the P-38s win/loss rate and aircraft return rates were both better than the P-51. The P-51s niche was high altitude escort in the ETO where team work enabled it to do the job. Together with large numbers of aircraft built in two factories, the more plentiful P-51 became the prime escort fighter simplifying maintenance, training, inventories and mission planning.
| My thoughts exactly.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
| | |
08-01-2006, 04:30 PM
|
#74 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet My thoughts exactly. | The funny/sad thing about it all, and in spite of it actually being the better fighter with the better record, it was considered a failure in Europe by many people.  Just think what could have been if the P-38K had been produced by two or three factories starting in Spring '43 and better twin engine training!
wmaxt | |
| | |
08-02-2006, 01:28 PM
|
#75 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,024
| As a fighter the P-51 is better than the P-38, despite what the service record might tell you.(Remember the tally includes ground-targets)
By German fighter pilots the P-38 was considered easy prey, eventhough in most engagements the German pilots were more concerned about blowing bombers out of the sky. (That was afterall the goal of the intercept)
Adolf Galland:
P-38s were not difficult to handle in combat. Many, many P-38 pilots are angry with me about this statement, but it's true.
PS: This isn't an attempt to bash the P-38, cause it was a good overall airplane, which it proved in the PTO, just not a particularly good fighter, esp. not in the ETO. - Unless flown by an expert pilot ofcourse..
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
| | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 PM. | |
