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07-02-2006, 05:54 PM
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#61 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,327
Country:  | Agreed
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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07-06-2006, 07:07 AM
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#62 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6
Country:  |  Es lebe Bayerische Flugzeugwerke & Messersmitt!
I would bet all my money on the BF Messersmitt 109 K-4 Kurfurst, because of the all-great fly ability, and its strong arment, (2x 13mm. MG 131 mountet on the engine top, and 1x 30mm. canon MK 108 shooting out of the propeller hub) and here's some data so you can judge for yourselfs  Max. Speed: 727km/h with Manthol/Water mixture enable, and 6000 ft. altitude, Cruise Speed: 590km/h, Ceiling: 12,500 m, Combat radious: 210 km, Fuel capacity: 400 l. Wing area: 16.05 sq.meters, Horse power: 1550 hp. so go, judge for yourself :P | |
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07-06-2006, 07:44 AM
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#63 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country:  | at least ur better than those noobs who make only 1 post of 'The Mustang was rated the Best fighter of all time!!!"
__________________  "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland"  | |
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07-06-2006, 08:15 AM
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#64 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,327
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by pathchampion I would bet all my money on the BF Messersmitt 109 K-4 Kurfurst, because of the all-great fly ability, and its strong arment, (2x 13mm. MG 131 mountet on the engine top, and 1x 30mm. canon MK 108 shooting out of the propeller hub) and here's some data so you can judge for yourselfs Max. Speed: 727km/h with Manthol/Water mixture enable, and 6000 ft. altitude, Cruise Speed: 590km/h, Ceiling: 12,500 m, Combat radious: 210 km, Fuel capacity: 400 l. Wing area: 16.05 sq.meters, Horse power: 1550 hp. so go, judge for yourself :P | While I agree with you on the Bf-109K one on one vs a P-51D you also have to remember though that the Bf-109K lost some of its great flying characteristics as it got faster but heavier (not as much as some people like to make it be, but it did). Now having said that, I voted for the Bf-109K as well.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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07-06-2006, 06:56 PM
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#65 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,794
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Well the speed of the Bf-109K and the P-51D were very similar and the P-51D was not as maneuverable as everyone thinks. | But as I understand it the 109 was better at slower speeds, less than 250, about equal up to 350 but a lot worse above 350.
Seen as these planes are built for speed, the edge would be on the P51. | |
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07-07-2006, 11:55 AM
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#66 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,146
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Erich the 109K was going to be phased out and replaced in time either with jets or the Ta 152 which could bust 500mph ............. yep ! so to compare a non-combat operative K-14 with the WW 2 present D and K of the P-51 is a bit silly as the posting of the same accord that I have replied to with more what if answers on the axishistory.forums.com | I could not find any reference that said the Ta 152 was capable of 500 mph. The fastest I could find was 472 mph, which is 15 mph slower than the P-51H, which was built in much larger numbers. | |
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07-07-2006, 01:36 PM
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#67 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,936
Country: | the P-51H was not operational in the ETO. mph according to vets of JG 301, you will not even find it written in the war diary by W. Reschke. this may have been in a dive ? but would assume the craft could plunge like a rock doing well over the 500 mile mark. Sadly so very little written about the bird except it was a rocket in the hands of the pilots. Reschke claims he did over 750km per hour several times while in III. and Stab./JG 301 not in a dive but at quite the altitude
~ preview: I have a very strong interest in JG 301 as I had a cousin serve in 5./JG 301 during the fall of 44 before he was shot dwon KIA south of Misburg
v/r E
Last edited by Erich : 12-05-2007 at 02:42 PM.
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07-07-2006, 03:32 PM
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#68 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,835
Country: | Hey Erich, is he mentioned in Lorants/Goyats book??
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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07-07-2006, 03:46 PM
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#69 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,936
Country: | no he is not as that is ALL JG 300, books and web-sites are incorrect, W. Reshcke served in JG 302 first then a transfer into JG 301 for the remainder of the war, funny though he is the rep for all three former Wilde Sau Geschwaden.
My cousin went to flying school for some weeks and then immeidately into II./JG 301 in September of 44, he had two missions, 21st and 26 November in his white 2 Fw 190 A-9 possibly an R11, then shot down and killed. | |
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07-07-2006, 04:13 PM
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#70 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,835
Country: | The training those kids got was so inadequate prior to joining an active Staffel, its sad.... Reading the III./JG 54 Green Hearts book, its amazing any of them survived....
Only the luck of bad weather kept most of them alive... Hats off to ur cousin, once again, who did his duty the only way he knew how...
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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07-07-2006, 04:40 PM
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#71 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,067
| That USSBS survey about the bombing of the refineries said that NO av gas was made available for training flights after Nov 1944.
I dont know if thats an exaggeration, but its indicative on how desperate the fuel situation had become.
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"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
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07-07-2006, 05:00 PM
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#72 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,835
Country: | Some pilots just arriving had as little as 15 hours of stick time, with only the basic rudementary flying formations....
__________________ "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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07-07-2006, 06:32 PM
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#73 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,070
Country:  | During the Battle of Britain pilots where going to squadrons with as little as 7-8 hours on Spitfires/Hurricanes generally though it was around 10-12.
__________________  "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
Sir Winston Churchill
"To him the people of the world largely owe the Freedom and liberties they enjoy today"
Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London
Moderator WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum | |
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07-07-2006, 09:05 PM
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#74 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country: | lucky them, some kids got to familiarize themselves for 20 mins in a He-162 then thrown into combat
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
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07-08-2006, 12:52 AM
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#75 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,470
Country: | How long will this one last -- two, three weeks?"
And untrained British Pilots proved him wrong.
__________________ 
"His motor's conked out!"
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"Luke, shut up!"
"Fear the hook!"
"Oh.....I wanna fly."
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"What you doing? Oh Nooooo!" | |
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