Pick 6 a/c to build your AF at beginning WWII

[drgondog]

Pick 6 and only 6 aircraft - any choice of truly operational aircraft built during WWII as your five choices to produce for entire war. Whatever model and version you pick, you stick with.

You pick your group based on what you believe best serves the country of choice in the strategic and tactical doctrine of the military leaders of that country.

Example - Seafire, Lancaster (or B-29A), C-47B, Mosquito MKXII, PT-17A (or AT-6) (whatever you pick you have to use for you entire airforce) and a carrier borne bomber of some type for your fleet if you are Britain.

F4U-4 would be another choice for Fighter if your country needed to populate Carrier Air and also provide for long range escort and TBF might be a choice instead of SB2C for example. If you don't pick a trainer state which of your choices you start your zero time student with?

Or pick Me 262, F4U-4, TBF, C-46, Mosquito XII, and PT-17 with no intention of any greater strategic capability than Mosquito (which ain't bad)

State the country and strategic tactical mission you believe you are picking for.[/

 

[Thorlifter]

I think we've done this a couple times, but it's always fun to pretend!!

F4U-4 - Fighter/Attack/Navy Fighter
P-47N - Fighter/Attack
B-29 - Strategic Bomber
A-26 - Medium Bomber/Attack
C-47 - Transport
AT-6 - Trainer

I think if these were all I had for the entire war that I would do ok.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hmm lets see.

1. B-29A (Bomber)
2. Me 262A (Intercepter)
3. C-47 (Transport)
4. Fw 190F (Fighter Bomber/Attack)
5. T-6 Texan (Trainer)
6. P-51D (Escort Fighter)

 

[pbfoot]

I'll go this way
Bomber B29
Fighter Hawker Sea Fury
Attack Douglas A1 skyraider
Transport C47
Trainer DHC82 Tiger Moth
Advanced Trainer AT6 /Harvard
I took 2 trainers The Tigermoth to teach him how to fly amd the Harvard to get him up to speed for the higher performance aircraft would actually like a 7th just to get a primary twin aircraft like the Anson or Cessna Bobcat otherwise there are going to be tons of high performance multi engines scattered around the countryside

 

[ccheese]

Hmmm..... nobody picked a P-38 or a Spitfire.....

Wonder why ?

Charles

 

[Njaco]

Well, I would pick:

F4U-4 (Carrier, fighter)
Ta 152H-1 (Fighter, escort, interceptor)
Mosquito (Ground attack, bomb, recon)
B-25 (bomber, ground attack)
C-47 (transport)
AT-6 (trainer)

Tried to pick some that had adaptability with other roles.

 

[drgondog]

Well, I would pick:

F4U-4 (Carrier, fighter)
Ta 152H-1 (Fighter, escort, interceptor)
Mosquito (Ground attack, bomb, recon)
B-25 (bomber, ground attack)
C-47 (transport)
AT-6 (trainer)

Tried to pick some that had adaptability with other roles.

I would think along these lines:
Assume I am Germany and I decided that Strategic Airpower was not part of my doctrine, nor did I have or plan to have a large surface fleet including carriers? What I do need to do is train, deploy and support my 'mission'.

I might pick Me262b-1a for interceptor, in night fighter/two seat version but capable of daytime intercept.

I would choose either the C-47 or C-46 over the Ju 52 because of load and speed and range and still be able to land in reasonabley rough areas. If C-47 it would also be my advanced multi-engine trainer.

For Primary I would pick AT-6 even though it is a 'load' for a zero time pilot, but plan for a lot more of dual instructor time

I would pick the P-38L to a.) extend my long range interceptor capability and complement the 262 in Fighter bomber role. It is my swing ship for Recon, light bomber, Ground Support and Interceptor. If Germany had a fleet I would have picked the F4U-4 or F7F instead.

I would pick the Mosquito XVI as my long range medium bomber

I would have difficult time picking between Fw 190D-9 or F4U-4 for my multi role tactical fighter - rejecting the P-51H and P-47N and Tempest V becuase I think the P-38L's offer more versatility. Probably pick the F4U-4 for range and load combined with fighter/fighter ability at all atitudes through 30,000 feet.

I would not have a Strategic Air Force but I am capable of striking, effectively at the capitals of all my adversaries except US and make the convers very painful.

 

[claidemore]

Not sure if we're supposed to pick just one model from a type, looks like everyone is just picking a type. I'll stick to props, though jet performance was unsurpassed, keeping them operational was a problem.

1:Trainer-Tachikawa Ki36/55. trainer and army cooperation

2:Heavy Bomber- B29, max bombload and high alt

3:Medium Bomber-Mosquito, multirole:nightfighter, recon and bomber

4:Ground Attack: P47-heavy armament 8x.50 mg (carried 10 rockets compared to 8 on others used in this role) capable of defending itself or carrying on offensive attacks after delivering ordnance.

5:Fighter- Mustang MkIV/P51-D, UNLESS I knew that the maximum range needed was less than 1100 miles, then I'd go with Spitfire XIV

6:Transport-C47/Lisunov Li-2

 

[ccheese]

Guess it's my turn....

F4U - Fighter/Attack/Bomber
P-38 - Fighter/Attack/Recon
B-29 - Heavy Bomber
B-25 - Medium Bomber/Attack
C-47 - Transport
AT-6 - Trainer

Charles

 

[drgondog]

Not sure if we're supposed to pick just one model from a type, looks like everyone is just picking a type. I'll stick to props, though jet performance was unsurpassed, keeping them operational was a problem.

1:Trainer-Tachikawa Ki36/55. trainer and army cooperation

2:Heavy Bomber- B29, max bombload and high alt

3:Medium Bomber-Mosquito, multirole:nightfighter, recon and bomber

4:Ground Attack: P47-heavy armament 8x.50 mg (carried 10 rockets compared to 8 on others used in this role) capable of defending itself or carrying on offensive attacks after delivering ordnance.

5:Fighter- Mustang MkIV/P51-D, UNLESS I knew that the maximum range needed was less than 1100 miles, then I'd go with Spitfire XIV

6:Transport-C47/Lisunov Li-2

It's my thread - pick the types you want, jet or prop or rocket. But state your 'strategic and tactical' objectives - like 'who are you' and who are you fighting? You are the one determining whether you want Carrier air fighters or bombers, etc.

 

[drgondog]

My picks for US, given Naval surface and Land based airpower.

B29A for all land based minelaying, night bombing, daylight bombing, tactical and strategic bomb missions. (Expensive A26, B-25, JU 88, etc but hey, this is America)

F7F for night fighter, recon, long range interceptor with very heavy (for US) firepower, Carrier based attack roles including torpedo attacks, both land and carrier based roles.

F4U-4 for all tactical fighter Bomber roles, escort (along with F7F), interceptor augmentation, both land and carrier based roles.

C-46 for payload, speed and fairly good rough field capability - the latter deciding for me over C-54. Not as good as C-47 for multi engine trainer so I would still have to think on this one.

AT-6 for Trainer all the way from Basic to Advanced, Instrument training.

Me-262 dual seat, night fighter version for all interceptor roles for strategic bases and US, and figure out how to increase range for medium range escort..

The latter was a tough choice because the Mustang and P-38L and Mossie and SB2C and TBF all have huge potential roles. But, I have to consider one of you will take Germany or Japan and decide you want a B29 or Lancaster in your portfolio

 

[Njaco]

Understood drgn. Does the Mossie carry a larger bomb load than the Mitchell? I had the B-25 because of bomb load in a conventional way and also it could adapt to ground attack and shipping with added guns in the nose. Both it and the Mossie were interchangable to a point.

But I see your point. Gonna think it through a bit more.

Ok, instead of another post.....

As crazy as it sounds, I'll pick Norway and the mission would be convoy and port interdiction of hostile countries (germany, Russia or even England, who knows). Probably small carrier fleet - so the Corsair would stay for now and the Mitchell if needed! Mossie and Mitchell for my bombers and other needs. Now the Ta I might need to change. Thinking.

 

[drgondog]

Understood drgn. Does the Mossie carry a larger bomb load than the Mitchell? I had the B-25 because of bomb load in a conventional way and also it could adapt to ground attack and shipping with added guns in the nose. Both it and the Mossie were interchangable to a point.

But I see your point. Gonna think it through a bit more.

I think the Mossie carried the same load faster and farther.

I thought this exercise was more meaningful than 'what six are best' - more 'what six support Germany, Commonwealth, USSR, US, Japan air/sea power doctrines and how would the 'isolation' of your country alter doctrine?

That is why I struggled with choosing the Me 262. Clearly the best Interceptor, arguably one hell of a fighter bomber, best recce - but worthless if you want a very long range escort or intercept capability as your only fighter. But if Japan and Germany has B-29 I want Me 262 in Continental US from Aleutian based bombers early, and guarding bases in UK and Italy, etc.

Ditto C-47.. it actually might be a better choice for me than C-46 simply because it is docile enough to act as a true multi engine trainer whereas the C-46 was less forgiving.

If you are thinking about Japan for example, they needed force multipliers in the Fleet. If I was picking for them, then for JNAF I would think first about the F7F because of it's versatility as a night fighter (it actually deployed in that role first IIRC) for USMC, a load carrying fast mother with both bomb and torpedo capability, and loved as a high potential day fighter by the guys that flew both the F4U and F8F.. It was very bad in a spin however.

They could almost get by with something like that plus a SB2C to combine dive bombing and alternate medium load carrying a/c.

Then pick Me 262 as interceptor for JAF and Mossie for medium bomber and versatile roles.

That leaves room for a trainer and another a/c. I am not sure that a B-29 fits their doctrine - if so I would drop the Mossie and replace with B-29 for all land based bomber roles (we don't have a budget) and reject the Ar 234 because of the ranges involved.

For the same reason I might pass over the C-46 and C-47 and pick C-54 but that leaves a big hole in multi engine trainer... so I'm forced back to C-47.

Back to AT-6 for trainer

I'd like to see someone parse Commonwealth or USSR or argue my choices for LW

 

[joy17782]

ok first time doing this here we go b-29 bomber, at-5 texan trainer, me 262 fighter, c-47 transport, p-38 ground support, night fighter, recon, and one more well i would go with the b-25 mitchel it has so many areas i could use it in , and i would be germany, i think i could get alot done with this force . the b-29 never know what i might want to hit , hint hint

 

[pbfoot]

I'll stick with Canada and will concentrate on taking on the Atlantic for ASW rather then heavy bombing having a tacticle component operating out the British Isles or continent
I would have LB4Y Privateer as my primary ASW aircraft operating from North America , Azores, Iceland and Africa I could do a pretty fair job on the U boats
My CAP aircraft would be the Tempest just to be a little different
with Mossies that could play the Maritime/Tacticle/Intruder aircraft with a semi strategic value
Transport would be the Lockheed C69 Constellation because of the distances involved in supplying the bases
The training would be done with the Arado 96 and C45 just to make sure I didn't waste potential new aircrew with overwhelming aircraft making smoking holes all over the countryside
ASW LB4Y Privateer
Fighter Tempest
Tacticle/Maritime Strike Mossie
Transport C69 Constellation
Trainer Arado 96
Utility/Trainer C45 "Bugsmasher"

 

[drgondog]

I'll stick with Canada and will concentrate on taking on the Atlantic for ASW rather then heavy bombing having a tacticle component operating out the British Isles or continent
I would have LB4Y Privateer as my primary ASW aircraft operating from North America , Azores, Iceland and Africa I could do a pretty fair job on the U boats
My CAP aircraft would be the Tempest just to be a little different
with Mossies that could play the Maritime/Tacticle/Intruder aircraft with a semi strategic value
Transport would be the Lockheed C69 Constellation because of the distances involved in supplying the bases
The training would be done with the Arado 96 and C45 just to make sure I didn't waste potential new aircrew with overwhelming aircraft making smoking holes all over the countryside
ASW LB4Y Privateer
Fighter Tempest
Tacticle/Maritime Strike Mossie
Transport C69 Constellation
Trainer Arado 96
Utility/Trainer C45 "Bugsmasher"

Pb - This is a clever selection of mission and mix. I might have scrapped the C-45 and kept the C-47. I've had some right seat time in the both and the C-47 in my opinion is as easy (maybe even more forgiving) than the Beech... that way you have some intermediate, rough field capability to work your infrastructure within Canada or back and forth with intermediate supply runs close to Africa and UK?

Just made me think (unusual) that if Canada performed this role in the Commonwealth, freeing RN and RAF for UK from that mission, I wonder waht the Down Under component would/should specialize in?

Or conversely, what would Italy focus on for Axis? Based on their own strategic guidelines (I think air defense, medium range air and sea attack/defense, and?)

 

[Glider]

B29 - Long Range Bomber and ASW (OK it didn't but why not use it)
Mossie, - NF/PR/Medium Bomber/Strike
Tempest - GA Low/Medium fighter
HA Fighter - TA152
Transport - C47
Trainer - AT6

 

[drgondog]

B29 - Long Range Bomber and ASW (OK it didn't but why not use it)
Mossie, - NF/PR/Medium Bomber/Strike
Tempest - GA Low/Medium fighter
HA Fighter - TA152
Transport - C47
Trainer - AT6

I assume no daytime strategic missions or even daylight intermediate strikes in high threat target areas? The B-29A should be 'adaptable' to all long and medium range strike missions so ASW, Mine Laying, long range anti shipping, even night strategic missions w/o factory modification - so you wouldn't need escort fighters as much as for daylight raids..

Was there a specific Mossie version that was both a Night Fighter and had bomb carrying capability? If there was then I would switch my Mk XVI to it?

 

[Wildcat]

My choices for the RAAF engaged in operations in Australia/Pacific region.

B29 - Long range bomber and mine laying.
P51 - Intercepter/escort/TacR/ground attack
Beaufighter - ground attack/maritime strike/NF
PBY - Recon/ASW/ASR/Night bomber/mine laying/convoy patrol/maritime strike/special duties
C47 - transport
Wirraway - trainer/Army co-op/light bomber/TacR

I tried to pick a/c that were versitile enough to use in many different roles that would involve long ranges over jungle and water. The B29s would be used against strategic targets and the mining of enemy held ports and sea lanes. I would probably use them in the anti shipping role aswell for targets outside the range of the Beaufighters and Mustangs.
I chose the Beaufighter over the mossie simply because it had less trouble in the humid tropics were it would be employed. It would be my primary strike a/c plus my NF force. Could also be employed as a day fighter if need be.
I chose the Mustang simply because of its range and the fact that some Australian built Mustangs were fitted with cameras filling my PR role. Also handy in the ground attack role, though I would probably prefer the Corsair for this.
Due to the vast amounts of water to be patroled I chose the PBY to fill my ASW/ maritime patrol role. Also be employed as a mine layer/night bomber/anti-shipping a/c (night only) as per the RAAF's black cats of WWII. I chose this over the B-24 simply because I can use it for vital ASR work for downed aircrew. Also be used for special duties behind enemy lines (Clandestine missions/resupply etc).
I think the Wirraway was a good choice because apart from a trainer it would also be employed in the Army co-op/ light bomber (dive)/ TacR role which proved itself invaluable in New Guinea in WWII. If things got real desperate, could also be thrown in the air defence role too. However I'd hate to be the man to give that order!

 

[drgondog]

My choices for the RAAF engaged in operations in Australia/Pacific region.

B29 - Long range bomber and mine laying.
P51 - Intercepter/escort/TacR/ground attack
Beaufighter - ground attack/maritime strike/NF
PBY - Recon/ASW/ASR/Night bomber/mine laying/convoy patrol/maritime strike/special duties
C47 - transport
Wirraway - trainer/Army co-op/light bomber/TacR

Why pick a PBY over say a Mariner? Good chices for the mission for sure.

I tried to pick a/c that were versitile enough to use in many different roles that would involve long ranges over jungle and water. The B29s would be used against strategic targets and the mining of enemy held ports and sea lanes. I would probably use them in the anti shipping role aswell for targets outside the range of the Beaufighters and Mustangs.
I chose the Beaufighter over the mossie simply because it had less trouble in the humid tropics were it would be employed. It would be my primary strike a/c plus my NF force. Could also be employed as a day fighter if need be.
I chose the Mustang simply because of its range and the fact that some Australian built Mustangs were fitted with cameras filling my PR role. Also handy in the ground attack role, though I would probably prefer the Corsair for this.
Due to the vast amounts of water to be patroled I chose the PBY to fill my ASW/ maritime patrol role. Also be employed as a mine layer/night bomber/anti-shipping a/c (night only) as per the RAAF's black cats of WWII. I chose this over the B-24 simply because I can use it for vital ASR work for downed aircrew. Also be used for special duties behind enemy lines (Clandestine missions/resupply etc).
I think the Wirraway was a good choice because apart from a trainer it would also be employed in the Army co-op/ light bomber (dive)/ TacR role which proved itself invaluable in New Guinea in WWII. If things got real desperate, could also be thrown in the air defence role too. However I'd hate to be the man to give that order!

One of the struggles I have about B-29 is airfield preparation and logistic requirements. If your base is primarily Australia/New Zealand this is a non issue but until the bases are taken to strike Japan the B-24 and Lancaster would be pretty hard to beat. For`ANZAC I wonder if either a B-24 or Lanc is a better Choice or even a Mossie XVI?

If you have a Pappy Gunn in RAAF you could probably put a field modifies 'hard nose' on the Mossie and extend the versatility. Just wouldn't have the range to do mine laying until Iwo Jima taken.. I'm assuming mine laying not truly effective until you can saturate Japan waters and ports?